FXR Cam change problem
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Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Central NE
FXR Cam change problem
I changed out the INA cam bearing on my 93 FXR with 8,750 miles and added a Andrews EV-23 cam with new HD lifters and SE adjustable pushrods. Yesterday I went for the first ride and I seemed to have
ruined a near perfect bike as it vibrated more than before.
It used to run so smooth above 45 I could read license plate numbers
on the cars behind but now the mirrors vibrate and I can feel a tingle
in the handle bars, it does have a little more passing power but not a lot.
I went up one jet size to a 170 main and 42 pilot.
I shimmed the cam with a .065 shim to .014 end play, I did not change
anything else, and did not even have to remove the exhaust.
Is this typical with a cam change or am I missing something?
I did check the timing and it was almost the same as before.
Thanks
ruined a near perfect bike as it vibrated more than before.
It used to run so smooth above 45 I could read license plate numbers
on the cars behind but now the mirrors vibrate and I can feel a tingle
in the handle bars, it does have a little more passing power but not a lot.
I went up one jet size to a 170 main and 42 pilot.
I shimmed the cam with a .065 shim to .014 end play, I did not change
anything else, and did not even have to remove the exhaust.
Is this typical with a cam change or am I missing something?
I did check the timing and it was almost the same as before.
Thanks
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
Check ignition timing close only counts in horeshoes, hand grenades and most artillery and bombs. Recheck cam and breather timing, re-adjust pushrods and verify plug gaps. Did you wait long enough after adjusting the first set of valves?? If not you may have tweaked some valves. If the jetting prior to the cam change was close go back to that first. Did you re-adjust the air bleed after the jet changes?? How about a vacum leak, that would make the VOES retard the timing. That should get you started and if you do not find anything re-post and we can go from there. Hope this helps.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 216
Likes: 2
Check the timing with a light. When you change the cam, the timing can change alot depending on how close the gear is pressed on if you only mark the plate and reinstall it. Just a cam change should not increase vibration significantly.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,402
Likes: 2,605
From: NC USA
Well, good advice from all for sure, but bottom line, it was smooth before and now it's not, something you did (or didn't do) is the deal.
EV23 is a mild cam, in fact almost identical to the 88-91 stock cams. I'm not sure how much vibration would be caused by lean jetting, but 42 is way too lean for a Big Twin, regardless of anything else about the bike.
Timing: If you get the plate close to where it looks right, (where you think it was) you could be off bad. (All this assuming stock ignition) Being it's a dual fire, it's possible to have it off one tooth (viewing in the adjustment V cutout of the pickup backing plate) and it'll start, run and have the timing mark in view with a light, but be firing way off time. The dead giveaway of this is when you slightly move the plate, you totally loose the timing mark with the light. And I can't explain how all this is, but I've done it myself. Drove me nuts for a little while... well, I still am nuts, anyway...
So be sure you have the clear timing plug screwed in as close as possible (for an easier view) a good timing lite and patience when you go after it. And remember, if you're using a digital timing light that you can "dial down" the advance reading, you read the TDC mark with the lite set at 35 BTC. BUT, if you're using a light that does not have a 2-stroke setting, you DOUBLE the advance reading on the light to 70 BTC(because it's firing twice every revolution) And if you're using a regular lite, hope your eyes are better than mine at seeing that tiny dot for the advance mark
If getting the timing right doesn't fix it, either the cam is out of time or the pushrods are adjusted way too tight and I don't think anything else you've done would cause a drastic vibration change, unless the front exhaust pipe/mounting is messed up.
Keep us updated when you can...
EV23 is a mild cam, in fact almost identical to the 88-91 stock cams. I'm not sure how much vibration would be caused by lean jetting, but 42 is way too lean for a Big Twin, regardless of anything else about the bike.
Timing: If you get the plate close to where it looks right, (where you think it was) you could be off bad. (All this assuming stock ignition) Being it's a dual fire, it's possible to have it off one tooth (viewing in the adjustment V cutout of the pickup backing plate) and it'll start, run and have the timing mark in view with a light, but be firing way off time. The dead giveaway of this is when you slightly move the plate, you totally loose the timing mark with the light. And I can't explain how all this is, but I've done it myself. Drove me nuts for a little while... well, I still am nuts, anyway...
So be sure you have the clear timing plug screwed in as close as possible (for an easier view) a good timing lite and patience when you go after it. And remember, if you're using a digital timing light that you can "dial down" the advance reading, you read the TDC mark with the lite set at 35 BTC. BUT, if you're using a light that does not have a 2-stroke setting, you DOUBLE the advance reading on the light to 70 BTC(because it's firing twice every revolution) And if you're using a regular lite, hope your eyes are better than mine at seeing that tiny dot for the advance mark
If getting the timing right doesn't fix it, either the cam is out of time or the pushrods are adjusted way too tight and I don't think anything else you've done would cause a drastic vibration change, unless the front exhaust pipe/mounting is messed up.
Keep us updated when you can...
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From: Central NE
Well I thank all of you for the info, I installed the front pushrods first, I had the lifter
blocks out and turned the engine until both lobes were on the heel of the cam,
I installed the front block with lifters and looked through the rear block to be sure
the rollers were centered on the cam lobes. I used two aligment screws to align the
block and than came the pushrods. The SE had 24 threads per inch so 2 1/2 turns
should be .104, I turned them a 1/4 turn at a time and waited until they rotated,
than another 1/4 until 2 1/2 total. I waited 1/2 hour than turned the engine until
the rear cyl cam lobes were both on the "heel". I turned the engine over after 2 hours, no clicks or noise, I installed the plugs and it started instantly, again
with no lifter or other noise. I let it idle for about 20 minutes with a fan to keep it
cool, I checked the timing with a light and the Dot was a little to the rear of the hole
at 1,600 RPM
I moved the plate just a little to center it. I also replaced the intake gaskets,
it ran fine with the #40 pilot and 165 main but it was a little cold blooded. As I said
I did not have to remove the exhaust, just the clamp on the cam cover.
The Andrews cam gear measured just .0002 larger, (checked with .108 Dia. gage pins) than the orginal so I used it. There was no valve train noise before or after
the swap. I am thinking I should have just changed the bearing and left the rest
alone.
blocks out and turned the engine until both lobes were on the heel of the cam,
I installed the front block with lifters and looked through the rear block to be sure
the rollers were centered on the cam lobes. I used two aligment screws to align the
block and than came the pushrods. The SE had 24 threads per inch so 2 1/2 turns
should be .104, I turned them a 1/4 turn at a time and waited until they rotated,
than another 1/4 until 2 1/2 total. I waited 1/2 hour than turned the engine until
the rear cyl cam lobes were both on the "heel". I turned the engine over after 2 hours, no clicks or noise, I installed the plugs and it started instantly, again
with no lifter or other noise. I let it idle for about 20 minutes with a fan to keep it
cool, I checked the timing with a light and the Dot was a little to the rear of the hole
at 1,600 RPM
I moved the plate just a little to center it. I also replaced the intake gaskets,
it ran fine with the #40 pilot and 165 main but it was a little cold blooded. As I said
I did not have to remove the exhaust, just the clamp on the cam cover.
The Andrews cam gear measured just .0002 larger, (checked with .108 Dia. gage pins) than the orginal so I used it. There was no valve train noise before or after
the swap. I am thinking I should have just changed the bearing and left the rest
alone.
Tourer
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 256
Likes: 7
From: Western NC
How far did you ride? After installing my EV27 I seemed to have a little more vibiration but after about 20 minutes or riding all was normal...Go figure?
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Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Central NE
Update
Well I removed the cam and double checked everything,
I was reinstalling the new lifters checking everything
with a micrometer and magnifing glass. I noticed
the rear intake lifter had two snap rings holding
the inner plunger. I removed one ring, whoever assembled the lifters must have had two of them stuck together or it was made on Mon.
The snap rings are only .030 thick so that should
not have made much differance except that plunger was .134 deep insted of .104.
Dealer said he seen one like that a few years ago.
All back together with new battery, plugs and
K&N filter, it was 50 degrees Sat. so off I went
on my nature road trip (a winding road along the
Platte river with deer, ducks, geese, and sometimes Elk). It runs great,
the engine is quiet with no click or ticks but the exhaust is louder
than heck, and I have a 75% hearing loss.
It still shakes more than before mostly at 40,
at 50 it starts to smooth out and at 60 it is
still. My nature road is a 40 mph speed so that
is why I noticed it more at low speed. I went
around a corner with loose gravel on it from the
ice truck last week , when I opened it up about
half throttle in third the darn thing start to spin the rear tire,
it had never done that before.
I did change the pilot jet to a 45 and it seems
to idle smoother, I put a Pingle fuel valve on it
and a set of harley fog lights, so I can see the
deer on dark mornings.
When I got home I pulled the plugs and checked
the compression, both were even right on 160 psi .
I also put a .010 brass shim stock around the
front pipe under the clamp as it fit loose.
I checked the timing at 1,300 rpm and the dot was centered.
Now for some warmer temps and I will put more miles on it,rolled over 9,000
on Sat.
Well I removed the cam and double checked everything,
I was reinstalling the new lifters checking everything
with a micrometer and magnifing glass. I noticed
the rear intake lifter had two snap rings holding
the inner plunger. I removed one ring, whoever assembled the lifters must have had two of them stuck together or it was made on Mon.
The snap rings are only .030 thick so that should
not have made much differance except that plunger was .134 deep insted of .104.
Dealer said he seen one like that a few years ago.
All back together with new battery, plugs and
K&N filter, it was 50 degrees Sat. so off I went
on my nature road trip (a winding road along the
Platte river with deer, ducks, geese, and sometimes Elk). It runs great,
the engine is quiet with no click or ticks but the exhaust is louder
than heck, and I have a 75% hearing loss.
It still shakes more than before mostly at 40,
at 50 it starts to smooth out and at 60 it is
still. My nature road is a 40 mph speed so that
is why I noticed it more at low speed. I went
around a corner with loose gravel on it from the
ice truck last week , when I opened it up about
half throttle in third the darn thing start to spin the rear tire,
it had never done that before.
I did change the pilot jet to a 45 and it seems
to idle smoother, I put a Pingle fuel valve on it
and a set of harley fog lights, so I can see the
deer on dark mornings.
When I got home I pulled the plugs and checked
the compression, both were even right on 160 psi .
I also put a .010 brass shim stock around the
front pipe under the clamp as it fit loose.
I checked the timing at 1,300 rpm and the dot was centered.
Now for some warmer temps and I will put more miles on it,rolled over 9,000
on Sat.
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Nov 15, 2006 01:24 AM
