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Wiseco 10:1 cr upgrade

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Old Sep 24, 2010 | 11:10 PM
  #11  
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NGH forget the SE heads, send your heads to Somebody like John Sachs in FLA, he does some super thing. Or you could get a set of Hemi performance heads and pistons. They will really put a smile on your face especially with a Woods cam!!! We've built quite a few super street engines with different varients of the above combo's.
 
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Old Sep 25, 2010 | 04:26 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by NorthGeorgiaHawg
IronGear - What cam would you recommend with these pistons?

I ask because I've been considering going with the Wiseco 10-1 pistons when I have to do a top-end job on Bertha this winter anyway, to fix her base gasket leak on the front cylinder. I'm also considering sending my heads out to Branch O'Keefe or somewhere for a total head job. Also am considering going with SE heads. What do you think is a good choice? Thanks.
I am also going to advise against the SE heads.
I really think that having the heads tailored to your build specifically is much better, especially when you are using pistons from here, cam from there, etc.

Having said that, I am a big believer in head work. Not in hogging them out, but cleaning them up, and sorting out the little areas that lower velocity.
You could go a slightly larger inlet valve, but this is by no means a default, and I would not be surprised at all if your head porter of choice wanted to stick with the stock size. You can get good flow without changing.

Woods cams are pretty well known for good torque grinds. They are also well known for having a noisy action.
Leineweber also do good torque grinds, but again, more valve train noise. I have always liked the E5S, but usually with a 9.5:1 ratio as opposed to 10, but you could always retard the gear position(if needed).

I would talk to whoever you are going to go with as far as any head work goes.
I say this because they may well have a combo that they are familiar with, and that usually makes for a better result, rather than throwing a few parts at them, and hoping they can pull it all together.

I dothink around 550 max lift is a good marker in an evo.

You definitely want to aim for low end power.
I recall one engine that had....
ev 46 (under .500 bolt in as I recall)
wiseco 10:1
screaming eagle 8000 module
stock size valves, ports cleaned up(not much really)
cv with k&n

It went really well, but was a light bike(fxr)
easy wheel standing, burnouts a breeze(only a 130 rear, mind you)

There is one thing I am wondering.
There will be far greater pressure on the lower end as a result of any work of this type.
How many miles does the engine have on it currently? This might alter the approach a little.
 
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Old Sep 25, 2010 | 04:47 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by NorthGeorgiaHawg
IronGear - What cam would you recommend with these pistons?

I ask because I've been considering going with the Wiseco 10-1 pistons when I have to do a top-end job on Bertha this winter anyway, to fix her base gasket leak on the front cylinder. I'm also considering sending my heads out to Branch O'Keefe or somewhere for a total head job. Also am considering going with SE heads. What do you think is a good choice? Thanks.
Oh oh here comes the lust.
On the other hand Head Quarters would do Bertha some justice, they could fix that top end right up for pistons and headwork along with an ignition, well that is if your really feeling the lust.Myself I'm good for another year before I get the lust bug.
 

Last edited by RidemyEVO; Sep 25, 2010 at 04:51 AM.
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Old Sep 25, 2010 | 10:15 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by miacycles
NGH forget the SE heads, send your heads to Somebody like John Sachs in FLA, he does some super thing. Or you could get a set of Hemi performance heads and pistons. They will really put a smile on your face especially with a Woods cam!!! We've built quite a few super street engines with different varients of the above combo's.
Originally Posted by IronGear
I am also going to advise against the SE heads.
I really think that having the heads tailored to your build specifically is much better, especially when you are using pistons from here, cam from there, etc.

Having said that, I am a big believer in head work. Not in hogging them out, but cleaning them up, and sorting out the little areas that lower velocity.
You could go a slightly larger inlet valve, but this is by no means a default, and I would not be surprised at all if your head porter of choice wanted to stick with the stock size. You can get good flow without changing.

Woods cams are pretty well known for good torque grinds. They are also well known for having a noisy action.
Leineweber also do good torque grinds, but again, more valve train noise. I have always liked the E5S, but usually with a 9.5:1 ratio as opposed to 10, but you could always retard the gear position(if needed).

I would talk to whoever you are going to go with as far as any head work goes.
I say this because they may well have a combo that they are familiar with, and that usually makes for a better result, rather than throwing a few parts at them, and hoping they can pull it all together.

I dothink around 550 max lift is a good marker in an evo.

You definitely want to aim for low end power.
I recall one engine that had....
ev 46 (under .500 bolt in as I recall)
wiseco 10:1
screaming eagle 8000 module
stock size valves, ports cleaned up(not much really)
cv with k&n

It went really well, but was a light bike(fxr)
easy wheel standing, burnouts a breeze(only a 130 rear, mind you)

There is one thing I am wondering.
There will be far greater pressure on the lower end as a result of any work of this type.
How many miles does the engine have on it currently? This might alter the approach a little.
Yeah, I've read the SE heads are overrated. I've also read quite a bit about large ports not being good for Evos because they slow the velocity of the charge. You guys know a lot more than I do, and you've posted great info here. I understand that the parts used in a build have to work together to produce power in the range you need.

Bertha's engine has 45,000 miles on it. It's a 95, which I understand isn't as strong on the low end as 96-up Evos are - esp for big bore. I don't want to overstress the low end, and I'm not thinking big bore - just head work and compression. And yeah, 10-1 might be a bit much because I want her to retain decent street manners and don't want to have to rebuild her 20K miles down the road. I also don't really aggressive ramps on the cam.

I'm thinking 85-90 peak HP, and yeah - really good low end torque - would be about all I'd need to go for, because Bertha's quite heavy, and I don't like having to downshift all the time to keep the revs higher. That's one thing I don't really like about the V-Thunder EVL-3010 cam I have in her now - it likes higher revs to get the power. Seems like an EV-46, since it's made for lighter bikes like Dynas and FXRs, would concentrate the power band at an even higher RPM than I like... I really don't ever rev her much beyond 5000 RPM.

I've read on the Branch O-Keefe site about what they do for stock Evo heads with their #4 head build - reshaping the combustion chamber from the "D" shape into a bathtub shape, cleaning up the ports, polishing the entire chamber, installing new valves/guides/keepers. etc. They stick with stock size valve or a bit bigger on the exhaust, and get really good flow. Their #4 head job gives an 8.9 CR on an Evo with stock pistons, and can accommodate over .550 lift - but 8.9 CR sounds just a bit low, and I wouldn't want to go over .550 lift anyway. I've also looked at other builders, but not John Sachs... yet!

I will spend good money to get better performance, but I don't just want to throw this and that at it... I'd rather plan this out and hopefully get really good results by having all of the components working together to produce the performance I want - which is mostly under 5000 RPM. I'm not going to jump into this until I have a balanced plan for the the whole engine. I want an engine with excellent low-end torque that will last a long time.

Thanks for the input so far, guys. I'm sure I'll have more questions!

Or maybe I should just save my money for that awesome S&S 111" Touring engine they have out now... heh heh!
 
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Old Sep 26, 2010 | 05:26 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by 96roadking
Which Andrews Cam? Increasing compression with the wrong cam could result in a bunch of spark knock. I'm no expert, just pretend once in a while on the internet. ( I'm also an amateur gynocologist!)
Andrews ev13 is my first choice.I'm gonna get one on Ebay this week.Good cam for 10:1 pistons?
 
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Old Sep 27, 2010 | 02:48 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Mike T
Andrews ev13 is my first choice.I'm gonna get one on Ebay this week.Good cam for 10:1 pistons?
Definitely not.
Cams that are designed to promote cranking pressure, and thereby increase low end power, can cause hard starting and tuning difficulties when the static comp ratio is too high.
If you email or call Andrews, they will tell you the optimum static comp ratio for any particular grind you may be favouring.
 
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Old Sep 27, 2010 | 03:18 AM
  #17  
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If you are thinking of having the heads reworked, I agree with Irongear - find someone you take a liking to and be guided by them. That way you get the added benefit of someone's experience in cooking that engine cake, and getting the ingredients just right! There are probably numerous specialists you can send your heads and barrels to and get back a complete package of all the bits you need to rebuild your motor - a one stop shop.
 
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Old Sep 27, 2010 | 01:57 PM
  #18  
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If you, or any body is interested, I have a new in the box Crane cam, 326-2, with the heavy duty needle bearing. The cam is only .495 lift, so no head work or hi lift springs are needed, and it is matched for the 10-1 pistons. A set of JE forged 10-1 pistons, rings and pins/locks. These were planned to go into my motor, but am no longer employed. I also have a cam change and top end gasket set, all in all over $715.00 worth of parts. I' can post pics if interested. Would like to get $500 out of everything, and I will pay the shipping USA only. Thanks, TJ
 
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Old Sep 28, 2010 | 09:48 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by IronGear
Definitely not.
Cams that are designed to promote cranking pressure, and thereby increase low end power, can cause hard starting and tuning difficulties when the static comp ratio is too high.
If you email or call Andrews, they will tell you the optimum static comp ratio for any particular grind you may be favouring.
Emailed Andrews about what cam they would suggest with 10:1 cr.They're response was EV46.Did some research and went with the Crane Cams Fireball 326-2.Set up for 10:1.Any of you have dealings with this cam?
 
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Old Sep 28, 2010 | 06:54 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Mike T
Emailed Andrews about what cam they would suggest with 10:1 cr.They're response was EV46.Did some research and went with the Crane Cams Fireball 326-2.Set up for 10:1.Any of you have dealings with this cam?
Yes, I have installed a few. They make power a little higher up, so need the 10:1 to avoid being dull down low.
I would buy "less gear", and reinstall the stock, unless there has been a failure, or extraordinarily high mileage.
The 326 is generally considered the equivalent of the 46.
A B138 bearing is a must.
 
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