Clutch help
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 379
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From: Tampa Bay
Clutch help
I'm getting ready to order a new clutch pack and cable for my '86 STC but I wanted to run my diagnosis by the rest of you to see if you agree. I would rather be able to order the parts in before I tear down the bike. I'm trusting that the basket is ok...I hope!
First, the symptoms; The biggest problem is that it doesn't like to go int 1, 2 or Neutral. Problem exists about 30%-40% of the time when stoped. 100% of the time under a hard fast stop. The clutch seems to be adjusted fine and has the proper play in the lever. I am also having down shift (& occasional upshift) problems when I apply the clutch slowly. If I snap the clutch in quickly it nearly always shifts fine. Also, when the clutch is engaged I can feel the lever rise and fall in a smooth rythmic pulse.
I figure I have warped clutch plates and probably a frayed cable. Do you all agree with that? Or, does anything else come to mind that might cause those symptoms? All replys are appreciated.
First, the symptoms; The biggest problem is that it doesn't like to go int 1, 2 or Neutral. Problem exists about 30%-40% of the time when stoped. 100% of the time under a hard fast stop. The clutch seems to be adjusted fine and has the proper play in the lever. I am also having down shift (& occasional upshift) problems when I apply the clutch slowly. If I snap the clutch in quickly it nearly always shifts fine. Also, when the clutch is engaged I can feel the lever rise and fall in a smooth rythmic pulse.
I figure I have warped clutch plates and probably a frayed cable. Do you all agree with that? Or, does anything else come to mind that might cause those symptoms? All replys are appreciated.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,236
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From: Indiana
I had a HECK of a time adjusting the clutch on my 1995 flhtp until I stopped at the dealer and talked to the shop.
Tech told me to pull the lever and let it snap out several times BEFORE trying to adjust. Don't know what it did, but, the clutchadjusted bbeautifully after I did it.
Tech told me to pull the lever and let it snap out several times BEFORE trying to adjust. Don't know what it did, but, the clutchadjusted bbeautifully after I did it.
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 379
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From: Tampa Bay
Hey Traildog! I think your clutch is the ball and ramp, isn't it? I know with those your supposed to pull the clutch a couple of times to set the cable. I wish I had that setup, I think it's probably a better way than my configuration. It certainly seems to be an easier clutch pull than what I have!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Santa Klaus County, Cali
I'm getting ready to order a new clutch pack and cable for my '86 STC but I wanted to run my diagnosis by the rest of you to see if you agree. I would rather be able to order the parts in before I tear down the bike. I'm trusting that the basket is ok...I hope!
First, the symptoms; The biggest problem is that it doesn't like to go int 1, 2 or Neutral. Problem exists about 30%-40% of the time when stoped. 100% of the time under a hard fast stop. The clutch seems to be adjusted fine and has the proper play in the lever. I am also having down shift (& occasional upshift) problems when I apply the clutch slowly. If I snap the clutch in quickly it nearly always shifts fine. Also, when the clutch is engaged I can feel the lever rise and fall in a smooth rythmic pulse.
I figure I have warped clutch plates and probably a frayed cable. Do you all agree with that? Or, does anything else come to mind that might cause those symptoms? All replys are appreciated.
First, the symptoms; The biggest problem is that it doesn't like to go int 1, 2 or Neutral. Problem exists about 30%-40% of the time when stoped. 100% of the time under a hard fast stop. The clutch seems to be adjusted fine and has the proper play in the lever. I am also having down shift (& occasional upshift) problems when I apply the clutch slowly. If I snap the clutch in quickly it nearly always shifts fine. Also, when the clutch is engaged I can feel the lever rise and fall in a smooth rythmic pulse.
I figure I have warped clutch plates and probably a frayed cable. Do you all agree with that? Or, does anything else come to mind that might cause those symptoms? All replys are appreciated.
Have you got the primary fluid at the right level; when was last time it was changed?
How many miles of the fiber plates? There are 3 adjustment settings for clutch diaphragm (least, middle and greatest compression) Do you know where yours is positioned? The manual does a good job of laying the correct procedure for seeting cable adjustment and checking for proper clearance on the diaphragm.
Think I would do that before going full-tilt boogie and think bad cable or warped shell. That is pretty extreme. Could be as simple as needing new fiber plates.
Do your checking with motor stone cold....so
1. Check/change primary level as needed. When did the problem first surface? Any chance you have the wrong (too heavy) lubricant in there?
2. Check adjustment setting per manual on clutch diaphragm
3. Readjust clutch pushrod and cable per manual
4. Test ride
If it still sucks the it is time to break it down and inspect plates (steel/fiber) and shell and if ya got a couple of extra replace with a stainleess braided line form some place like Russells.
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Tampa Bay
I readjusted the clutch about 1000 miles ago. At that time, the clutch wouldn't fully disengage but there was no pulsation coming through the clutch lever. The lever was very hard to pull but was smooth with no major shifting problems. A simple cable lube and adjustment brought that back to life. To clarify, I don't think the shell is warped, I think it to be the plates themselves, given the pulsation and I think, based on the way it now pulls that the clutch cable is frayed and likely was frayed when I lubed it the last time, it's just gotten worse. This time, with the pulsation in the lever, I'm leaning more towards warped than out of adjustment. But maybe I'm wrong...
I can't really say how many miles are on the fibers as I have changed speedos and it's been a while, I just don't remember. Yes, I do have a manual, and it's OEM.
Edit: I didn't know Russels sold braided cable. I thought they only offered braided line, as my clutch isn't hydraulic, I don't think that will do me much good.
I can't really say how many miles are on the fibers as I have changed speedos and it's been a while, I just don't remember. Yes, I do have a manual, and it's OEM.
Edit: I didn't know Russels sold braided cable. I thought they only offered braided line, as my clutch isn't hydraulic, I don't think that will do me much good.
Last edited by Slammed-N-Senseless; Aug 13, 2013 at 04:19 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: NW AR
Yeah, the 95 (87-up) is going to be the ball and ramp, not the arm and finger like we have. Just for the hell of it, check the finger thing. And I'm suspecting the throw out bearing and/or the push rod going through the transmission or the finger. I don't think any of these things indicates clutch disks. I think it's a clutch disengagement system issue, and not the cable either, unless you see it frayed. After properly adjusting the whole system, including the spring plate thingie and the primary chain, if it still does it, throw out bearing, finger, push rod, or the end inside the derby cover with the screw/lock nut. Also, I now use Mobil 1 ATF in the primary and it shifts great. My bike didn't like the stuff HD sells for primary fluid now. Too thick.
BTW, I've had several different clutch cables on my bike, including Barnetts. The last one I bought was a Genuine HD. NOS, I think, at a dealer. It is the smoothest, easiest cable I've had.
BTW, I've had several different clutch cables on my bike, including Barnetts. The last one I bought was a Genuine HD. NOS, I think, at a dealer. It is the smoothest, easiest cable I've had.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Indiana
Hey Traildog! I think your clutch is the ball and ramp, isn't it? I know with those your supposed to pull the clutch a couple of times to set the cable. I wish I had that setup, I think it's probably a better way than my configuration. It certainly seems to be an easier clutch pull than what I have!
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Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
From: Tampa Bay
Yeah, the 95 (87-up) is going to be the ball and ramp, not the arm and finger like we have. Just for the hell of it, check the finger thing. And I'm suspecting the throw out bearing and/or the push rod going through the transmission or the finger. I don't think any of these things indicates clutch disks. I think it's a clutch disengagement system issue, and not the cable either, unless you see it frayed. After properly adjusting the whole system, including the spring plate thingie and the primary chain, if it still does it, throw out bearing, finger, push rod, or the end inside the derby cover with the screw/lock nut. Also, I now use Mobil 1 ATF in the primary and it shifts great. My bike didn't like the stuff HD sells for primary fluid now. Too thick.
BTW, I've had several different clutch cables on my bike, including Barnetts. The last one I bought was a Genuine HD. NOS, I think, at a dealer. It is the smoothest, easiest cable I've had.
BTW, I've had several different clutch cables on my bike, including Barnetts. The last one I bought was a Genuine HD. NOS, I think, at a dealer. It is the smoothest, easiest cable I've had.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just trying to learn. Also, I forgot to mention, Sunday night I was in stop and go traffic and could feel chatter coming from the trany...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,195
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From: NW AR
Don't have an answer for you, SnS, but 1st and 2nd are where you tend to notice clutch problems more, as the torque is not multiplied by the transmission gearing as much in the higher gears. It's a theory, anyway. I just don't see a mechanism for the clutch disks to cause the problems you are experiencing. When clutch disks go bad, they slip. If they are warped, when the clutch is engaged (lever out), they are not going to transmit any motion to the lever. The clutch operating mechanism is the only thing I can see that would do that. I have had the clutch lever feel funny when that finger was in the process of breaking.
Last edited by Dr.Hess; Aug 14, 2013 at 06:48 AM.