Header question
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,883
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From: Ormond Beach, Florida
I am currently running a stock header with the street cannon slipons and a HD ventilator exhaust. I was not impressed with the full HD system numbers compared to cost so I decided to go this route for now. The bike gets ridden every day rain or shine. As for the tuner I am currently running the SE pro tuner. I have no issues with it for what its being used for. This is a roadbike not a dragbike so to speak. I know someone will chim in about how there are better tuners and I agree but for this aplication this is the one I chose to use. I will stay with the HD tuner and see what I can make it do. As for the waranty I talked to the local shop where I know everyone and there will be no issue with changing the header and factory waranty
My question is, since you have already done a ventilator upgrade and obviously a tune with the SE Pro tuner, what do you expect to get out of replacing the headers?
And, will the SE Pro tuner give you a map that will actually make the kind of improvement you are probably hoping for?
I'm not too knowlegable about this subject and wouldlike to know more.
Last edited by FrankEV; Oct 16, 2019 at 01:14 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 52
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From: New Mexico
The biggets gain from the header is getting rid of the heat from the cat. I should see a small gain across the board (fuel mileage torgue and HP). The reason for keeping the HD tuner is to see if i can make it work. I have done my own tuning on my race bike for a long time and I am curious about this HD tuner. On other tuners if you do not have a custom made map you can steal other premade maps. So you can use a map for a different exhaust than you actually have on the bike. Some times a map for a completly different setup works really well! I dont think you can do that with the HD tuner so I will tune it line by line so to speak. The first thing to do is to richen up the rear cylinder a bit to keep it from being so lean. From there its just kind of trial and error. With this HD tuner I dont think you can change certain peramiters very much if at all. We will see
Banned
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,967
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From: Jax FL
someone can correct me, but I think the SE street cannons are the slipons that sound horrible with no back pressure (no cat)?
so you have to put in a "lollipop" to make some back psi and get a good sound.
i think you have a good project: keep the warranty with the HD tuner, lose heat with the FM pipe, and then swap around slip ons to get the sound level you like.
i had a V&H pipe on an M8 with stock slip ons (i drilled the baffle in the pipes)
it lost the heat, and was pretty quiet. not quiet as stock, but not bone rattling, so it worked good for a DD.
i "think" there are two tuners, the SEPST (pro, can go outside EPA, no longer sold?) and the other one (I can't remember the acronym) it is the "Street" model, only does basic items: AFR, and minimal timing?
which tuner do you have?
so you have to put in a "lollipop" to make some back psi and get a good sound.
i think you have a good project: keep the warranty with the HD tuner, lose heat with the FM pipe, and then swap around slip ons to get the sound level you like.
i had a V&H pipe on an M8 with stock slip ons (i drilled the baffle in the pipes)
it lost the heat, and was pretty quiet. not quiet as stock, but not bone rattling, so it worked good for a DD.
i "think" there are two tuners, the SEPST (pro, can go outside EPA, no longer sold?) and the other one (I can't remember the acronym) it is the "Street" model, only does basic items: AFR, and minimal timing?
which tuner do you have?
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 809
From: Ormond Beach, Florida
The write up says it can do a lot of things, but I don't know enought about it to know if it will work with aftermarket installs, like the Fullsac Header pipes.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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From: New Mexico
Yes thats the tuner from HD. The purpose of this is to see what I can and cannot do with this tuner. Im not a big sound guy unless its a Vtwin or a inline 4 screaming down the front straight wide open!! The two sounds I hear most from HD bikes is low and mellow or I'll be deaf two miles down the road. the first Map I think I'll put on the bike and see what happens is the HD tune for a full system and air cleaner and I'll go from there.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,883
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From: Ormond Beach, Florida
This is just info for what ever you might think it is worth.
Spoke with a couple of my service department techs (not the counter guy, but guys who actually do the work). This is what they told me: Other than slipons, if you install any other than H-D parts in the exhaust system even if you use the H-D SEPST, your warenty will be voided by MoCo if and when the bike is hooked up to a dealer computer.
I explained that I wanted to do a full Stage I upgrade, but did not want to purchase the Street Cannons that come with the H-D Performance header pipes. They suggested that they can remove the cats from the stock header pipes so the pipes will perform more like a set of SE Performance pipes and the warrenty will not be voided. Yes, I still need to buy the SEPST and of course the SE Breather but I can still continue to use my Magnflow Hitman 4.5 Slip-ons. The cost of this would be significantly less then a dealer package Stage I.
Since the bike is only 6 months old, I really don't want to give up on the warenty, so this is the route I may take. After it is over two years old - if I'm even still around - there could be consideration to do something else. Right now I would just like the engine to perform as well as possible without doing any other upgrades or spending tons of $$$$$$'s.
Spoke with a couple of my service department techs (not the counter guy, but guys who actually do the work). This is what they told me: Other than slipons, if you install any other than H-D parts in the exhaust system even if you use the H-D SEPST, your warenty will be voided by MoCo if and when the bike is hooked up to a dealer computer.
I explained that I wanted to do a full Stage I upgrade, but did not want to purchase the Street Cannons that come with the H-D Performance header pipes. They suggested that they can remove the cats from the stock header pipes so the pipes will perform more like a set of SE Performance pipes and the warrenty will not be voided. Yes, I still need to buy the SEPST and of course the SE Breather but I can still continue to use my Magnflow Hitman 4.5 Slip-ons. The cost of this would be significantly less then a dealer package Stage I.
Since the bike is only 6 months old, I really don't want to give up on the warenty, so this is the route I may take. After it is over two years old - if I'm even still around - there could be consideration to do something else. Right now I would just like the engine to perform as well as possible without doing any other upgrades or spending tons of $$$$$$'s.
Last edited by FrankEV; Oct 18, 2019 at 02:41 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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From: New Mexico
I have talked to the guys here at my dealer and there will be no issues with the warranty. I understand some dealers and and the MoCo. will do everything they can to void the warranty. If your dealer is so adimate about voiding the warranty id find another! Do they void it if you dont use HD oil?
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,883
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From: Ormond Beach, Florida
First of all I'm not interested getting into a pissing contest here. Only repeating what I have been told. This came from the techs themselves, not a service manager and it was told to me as a friendly warning.
From what I understand, all dealers diagnostic computers are connected to MoCo using the bike VIN. And, if a dealer hooks your bike up to one of those computers and it indicates that the pipes are not an H-D product (Assuming a Harley Tuner is used, I don't know how it can tell the pipes are not H-D), MoCo will void the warenty on the engine. Anything else that is covered by warrenty would not be effected.
With that being said, even the Techs may be wrong. I plan to investigate more at a different dealer.
Steve from Fullsac, replying to a query of mine, said the Harley Tuner will work with their MX pipes but he did not say how WELL it will work.
I presume you will be moving forward with this undertaking using the MX Pipes and the SEPST. I, as I'm sure many others, will be very interested in the results of the overall upgrade over stock and what tune tweeks you do. Hope you will post this info when all finished.
Thanks
From what I understand, all dealers diagnostic computers are connected to MoCo using the bike VIN. And, if a dealer hooks your bike up to one of those computers and it indicates that the pipes are not an H-D product (Assuming a Harley Tuner is used, I don't know how it can tell the pipes are not H-D), MoCo will void the warenty on the engine. Anything else that is covered by warrenty would not be effected.
With that being said, even the Techs may be wrong. I plan to investigate more at a different dealer.
Steve from Fullsac, replying to a query of mine, said the Harley Tuner will work with their MX pipes but he did not say how WELL it will work.
I presume you will be moving forward with this undertaking using the MX Pipes and the SEPST. I, as I'm sure many others, will be very interested in the results of the overall upgrade over stock and what tune tweeks you do. Hope you will post this info when all finished.
Thanks
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Joined: May 2014
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From: Fort Worth, TX
There are many aftermarket non-harley exhaust systems that are EPA compliant with certification documentation that should not void your warranty from HD. That being said, I have never seen a company, especially one with as many quality issues and recalls try so hard to void peoples warranties so fast. I feel bad for people whose local dealer that takes that route.