Rough starts after 95" upgrade on a TC88
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 416
Likes: 1
From: Victoria BC Canada
I have an '03 FLHPI TC88 that had cam adjusters fail. When I replaced them I also added SE203 cam kit, stage 1 efi kit, SE super tuner, wiseco 9:1 95" kit, had heads decked, ported and polished, cylinders bored (duh), and dyno'd. All work done by my local stealer. Now have 5,000 miles on it. Power is awesome. Getting this thing started is another matter. It sounds like it's throwing up when I turn it over, I mean like a dry heave where Jaiger is coming out your nose kind of sound. Its ugly and embarrassing. Any ideas how to correct this rough start issue?
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
No, I didn't install compression releases. Hindsight maybe I should have. I have seen comments where guys with 10.5:1 aren't having any problems with starting and no compression releases... So is it needed??????????????????????
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 799
Likes: 25
From: Milan,Tennessee
kinda like a gnashing of teeth sound...? i have high comp pistons..203..i reduced the ring and pinion down to a 9/66..9 teeth on starter gear..66teeth on ring gear..also added a 1.4 kw all ***** starter and she is good to go now...always somethin...
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4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
I didnt put compression releases in either.....was sold that they weren't necessary with 9:1 compression.....didnt think I'd need 'em.
The Olowrider1's thought to bubba-fy the starter seems like an alternative: what was involved with going that route?
Thanks.
The Olowrider1's thought to bubba-fy the starter seems like an alternative: what was involved with going that route?
Thanks.
Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,084
Likes: 829
Me thinks the hot-start mode, may need a touch up with your dyno tuner.
And as mentioned, the 9/66 set-up works well.
Just installed that, on a 131" (build??) that came in from another oufit, that had the OEM ignition box on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No wonder it ripped the ring gear up!!
Scott
And as mentioned, the 9/66 set-up works well.
Just installed that, on a 131" (build??) that came in from another oufit, that had the OEM ignition box on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No wonder it ripped the ring gear up!!
Scott
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Solution found
I also had then pull the old compensator sprocket (25tooth) and put in a Baker 22 tooth. This made my 6th gear usable (I had swapped the old 5speed for an SE 6, and also went from 16"rear tire to 18"), and also makes it easier to roll out. The low end pull is phenomenal, and the small loss of usable top end made it a good sacrifice (since I didnt want to jack with replacing gear sets). I'm now pushing 3,300rpm at 75 with roll-on passing power with the new 22toother, before with the 25toother, I woulda been pushing 2,800 rpms and had to downshift to pass. Although I've had it to 120 with the 25 toother, it still had alot more left that I didnt/couldnt get into speed wise. Now I may see the top end of it...so no loss really, except the reduced vibration at 75. But if I wanted smooth, I'da bought a beamer.
$ 1100 bones, out the door, including the starter, other parts, and labor. Among the best things I've done to it so far (7 years and 30 grand).
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
Mine was hard starting after some work. and was embaressing.
Read and reread the tuning instructions.
Turned out to be- too much- cranking fuel.
Make a bold cut on cranking fuel with the Super tuner and see what happens.
One quick thing can be done is to hit the starting button right after switching to RUN. no wait. Don't wait for auto do you?
Read and reread the tuning instructions.
Turned out to be- too much- cranking fuel.
Make a bold cut on cranking fuel with the Super tuner and see what happens.
One quick thing can be done is to hit the starting button right after switching to RUN. no wait. Don't wait for auto do you?
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,773
Likes: 2,603
From: san antonio
wrench,
ajayrk inquired as to how much the heads were decked and head gasket thickness but you never posted that information. FYI, cranking compression is more important than static compression to determine whether or not compression releases are needed. The SE203 and 204 cams both have advance ground into the profile; 8* in the 204 and about 2* in the 203. A compression problem will manifest itself when the engine is hot and may even kick back from time to time. The stock starter should handle a 203 build with no problem. You really need to find out what your cranking compression is to see if you should have installed compression releases. If the problem is compression related, you have just spent $1100 to kick the problem down the road and eventually, your battery and starter will fail and your starter pinion and ring gear could get beat up in the process.
Not saying that your problem is compression related, just saying that until you know what your cranking compression is, you really don't know but the symptoms, as you describe them, indicate a compression issue. You should also be listening for detonation, very common with the 203/204 in hot climates or areas where good fuel is not in wide supply and corrected compression is on the high side.
ajayrk inquired as to how much the heads were decked and head gasket thickness but you never posted that information. FYI, cranking compression is more important than static compression to determine whether or not compression releases are needed. The SE203 and 204 cams both have advance ground into the profile; 8* in the 204 and about 2* in the 203. A compression problem will manifest itself when the engine is hot and may even kick back from time to time. The stock starter should handle a 203 build with no problem. You really need to find out what your cranking compression is to see if you should have installed compression releases. If the problem is compression related, you have just spent $1100 to kick the problem down the road and eventually, your battery and starter will fail and your starter pinion and ring gear could get beat up in the process.
Not saying that your problem is compression related, just saying that until you know what your cranking compression is, you really don't know but the symptoms, as you describe them, indicate a compression issue. You should also be listening for detonation, very common with the 203/204 in hot climates or areas where good fuel is not in wide supply and corrected compression is on the high side.
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
djl: I appreciate your insight and thoughts. I didnt reply to how much my heads were decked or the gasket thickness because I dont know what the dealer did.....my service writeup says heads decked and under parts it says gasket....I'd ask 'em, but its been a few months since they did it, I'm thinking they won't know...should I ask 'em anyway? Isnt this the same as accusing my doctor of malpractice? Tread lightly?
I guess if I dont wanna repeat the 1100 dollar exercise, I need to figure out if I have too much compression and need releases.
I have definitely had detonation issues...last summer, in the rockies, I attributed it to bad gas and altitude.....are you saying this may be another sign of a compression problem (too much??)????
At risk of sounding as ignorant as I am, How can you have too much compression?
Thanks,
NOTTAwrench
I guess if I dont wanna repeat the 1100 dollar exercise, I need to figure out if I have too much compression and need releases.
I have definitely had detonation issues...last summer, in the rockies, I attributed it to bad gas and altitude.....are you saying this may be another sign of a compression problem (too much??)????
At risk of sounding as ignorant as I am, How can you have too much compression?
Thanks,
NOTTAwrench