I know this has been discussed in a ton of threads & I have read most of them, just wanted some input on my best options for my specific application.

I have a 2012 FXDC, SE breather, V&H slip-ons, SE Pro Super Tuner w/dyno tune. I am wanting to do cams this winter & re-dyno.

I've been reading, researching, and trying to come up with the best solution for what I'm trying to achieve. I want to do cams, but do not want to pull heads or do any other top end work to the engine. I want a cam that makes good TQ from 2,000-4,000 where I do 90% of my riding but also makes good HP as rmps increase for when I want to twist the throttle. I also want a cam with a good lope at idle. Again, I want a bolt in cam and do not want to do any head work. Whatever cam I choose, I will have the bike re- dyno tuned with my SE race tuner.

I've read a lot about the se204 cams and like everything I read, except that they are hard to get tuned in right because HD doesn't have a map for that cam. I get my bike tuned @ the dealer, and they have a very good tuner so I'm not real worried about that, but it is a concern.

A lot of guys run the se255 cams, but it's not real clear to me if you need to also do the se valve spring replacement when you install them due to the .556 lift. Some guys do, some don't. I love the low end grunt, but from what I read they run out of performance over 4,000 rpm. I have also read some heat issues related with this cam.

What about the se254e? Bolt in or requires head work or higher than stock compression? Looks like more of a higher rpm cam? Not sure this is for me with a stage 1 motor.

A lot of guys recommend the Andrews 48H cams, but I can't find specs on Andrews website...like that cam doesn't exist or has been replaced by another grind. From what I have read, the 48H has the low end TQ of the se255, but makes better power in the upper rpms.

In the end, numbers are not that important to me, but I would like to see a noticeable increase in TQ & HP throughout the rpm range. I also want that lope like a HD should sound like at idle. I'm not going to go any farther with my engine in the future...this will be it. I just want cams that will be a noticeable increase in performance and feel from the seat without doing headwork.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the se204 or the Andrews 48H.
Personal experiences and recommendations please..

 

I recommend upgrading to gear drive cams while youre doing the work, cost more in the beginning but theyre better. With chain drive cams you have to adjust tensioners every 20,000 miles. Also its a general rule that gear drive cams are less likely to brake and nobody wants **** to brake.
On my bike i run S&S 510G you can buy the kit on amazon that has everything you need for around 600 bucks i think. With the S&S your stock heads and all should work no other mods will be needed. S&S will say that grinding in the crank case could be required however it probably wont be. With mine it wasnt. If you get 585 cams youll need to clearance the case but those cams arent good for your needs anyway. With the 510G cams from S&S youll get all the power you need in the RPM range you specified and wont have to do any other top end work. You will need adjustable push rods though so you dont have to take the heads apart. you can get SE adjustable rods for about 100 bucks. Like i said I run S&S 510G on my bike and its great, def worth reading up on. Hope this helps

 

Hey Sharkman,
I know this doesn't answer your question but...
You will get more out of a 2-1 exhaust then you will cams. Most of the harleys that have the most mileage on them are stock motors....Just saying, why go into the motor when the slip ons are the weekest link

 

Since changing the slip-ons on a FXDC gets rid of the cats + having an open a/c & the SE Pro Super Tuner, from looking at dyno sheets comparing what I have to same setup with 2-1 system instead of the slip-ons, looks like the gain is anywhere from 3-4 HP & about the same for TQ. Looking at dyno sheets with same set up, but doing the 204 cams and changing nothing else, HP gains are around 10 with TQ inceases of 8-10. Ideally I would like to do cams & 2-1 exhaust, but I think just doing cams will gain me more than just doing a 2-1 exhaust from the data I've seen and read. I think a good 2-1 exhaust is more beneficial on modified engines, and not much gain with a stage 1.

It sounds like this is what you've done though...is your motor just a stage 1 with stock cams? How did going from slip-ons to the pro-pipe change the feel from the seat? From what I've read, the #s don't always tell the whole story because the 2-1 system will make higher percentage of max TQ throughout the rpm range....in other words, flattens out the curve making more usable TQ available in the 2-4k rpm range. Did you find this to be true? Since you have always provided me good advise, I respect your opinions so I would consider this if I had enough compelling info and data to be convinced.

Like I said...Ideally I would love to do both at the same time, but right now I'm saving cash and I'm only going to be able to do one or the other right now.

As far as exhaust goes, I like the V&H pro pipe & also the competition series. I do however like the looks and sound of the V&H slip-ons I have & I think since I have a proper tune they have surely gained me a little HP & TQ since I don't have the cats. I put them on when bike was new, so I don't have any dyno numbers to compare stock vs. slip-ons.

 

Definitely does not need to waste money on gear drive cams and there is no need to adjust tensioners every 20,000. The newer engines have the hydraulic tensioners which are an upgrade available to the older TC engines. The new TC engines also have greater crank run out which does not work with the gear drive. The early models were tighter and could use them. They aslo benifited more because of the older spring style tensioner. Even on them, the hydraulic or just new tensioners is sometimes better than going to gear drive. If the crank run out is not in spec, than crank work us needed. Not coat effective at all.

 

Yes, I agree with this....2003 or newer TCs with the cast cranks typically have too much crank run-out to use gear driven cams without having the crank ground. I'm not getting into that...if I do cams they will be chain driven. The hydraulic tensioners on newer TCs are very reliable & I see no benefit in going to gear driven cams.

 

I am no gear head like some of the knowledgable folks on here, but it sounds like you want what is not achieveable. The lope comes from a cam with high lift, which is a high HP cam not particularly good producing torque in the desired range.

I highly recommend that you consider Cycle Rama 575 cams. Do a search, there are plenty of testimonials on here about the performance. Great low to mid range torque and plenty of horsepower.

Good luck.

 

I went with the Andrews 48H, based on alot of reading and recommendations from Scott @ Hillside, DJL, and a few others . I'm happy with it, easily better than stock. I bet I would be even happier if I got it on a dyno and had it tuned proper. Has a bit of a lope at idle(for EFI that is), less soft off the line and starts to really pick up around 2700rpm. Can't give you a comparison to the other cams you mention, sorry.

Cost around $650, including the bearing remover/installer tool, and took about a day.

 

I didnt know the new cam tensioners were so much better, I just know hd recommends the adjusters on my TC adjusted every 20k. In this case the chain drive cams seem like a great way to go

 

You have a good Stage I platform to build from. The 48 is pretty much the go to cam for a cam onlly upgrade in a 96" engine. Woods has a new profile, the 222 which is similar to the 48 and worth a look. Bolt in either one of those cams and get a re tune. Both cams will also work in a 103" configuration should you decide to go with a a bigger bore. Both will respond to headwork and more compression as well but if you get to the point of head work, there are other cams to take a look at.

The 204 is a very underrated cam IMHO but not will not perform as well as the two mentioned above but you will get a nice increase in performance. However, should you decide to go to a 103" configuration (read more compression) the 204 can be a tuning challenge.

You should upgrade your inner cam bearings when you open up the cam chest; Torrington B168s, full compliment to replace the INA OEM bearings.

If you go to the Propipe, pass on the Competition pipe and stick with the basic Propipe; better torque.