tbone108, and hillsidecycle, just to answer these questions.
1. tbone, bigger motors have one major disadvantage, torque. see torque is what you feel pushing you back, straightening your arms, and pulling tears out of your eyes when you get to the meat of it. bigger motors have a distinct hard hitting range, but when they start to fall off, they just pull then rev limiter kicks. fun over, or shift and go through another gear.
let me say this (for an example) your average 100 gsxr with a pipe and tune and all the goodies, will only make around 102 lbs of torque, but at 15,000 rpm!! and rev out at almost 17,000 rpm. Pretty impressive, but thats all they can do (per sae')
At, just for arguements sake, you only rev to 7000, the 1000 makes about 70hp, and 50 lbs of torque in max tune!! (this is an aproxmate, just for theories sake here)
so why a smaller motor? well too much torque is difficult to hook up on anything without wheelie bars and slicks (a huge expence and can of worms, clutch, chain drive, bigger wheel, slicks) where's the "street" in that???
so as a 95" motor, its the max i can do with what i got, $$, and I have parts already. So thats the main reason sir (or mam?)
2. hillsidecycle. at my current setup, 95" with flat tops, se heads, crane 290 cam, mukini 42mm, Bassini pro street pipes, 24 tooth comp sprocker, and 30 tooth trans pully, dunlop 401-150-80-16 tire (deicent but slimey at the track, its a street tire!!) and weighs 830lbs with me on it running 11.84-110mph in the quarter. I run, get ready............
87 octaine, ran 93, 104,110 and runs SLOWER AND NOT AS QUICKER TIMES
useally 12.15@106-107 mph.
my theory is the "good" gas isnt being used as much at the pumps, (money isnt as freely had now) and the "parts washer" gas is always fresh. In my case, works better and burns ok, not one single ping, cough, sputter!!
no the new combo with 11.0:1 or so compression, different cams, heads, carb, gearing....who knows what ill run. but i WILL deff step up to 93 AT LEAST!!
we do have vp fuel at my track, I will tune with 100 unleaded, at my local dyno shop and try other gas mainly 93 unleaded. Seems a strech and inprobbale, but my Busa buddies running 13.5:1 motors are running the 87 per my theory and making 112 tq and 210hp!!! running a best (read average best) 9.15-8.84 at 155-159mph!!
granted they are injected, have water cooling, and other parameters but running better times with lower octaine.
my real theory is lower octaing fuel burns (feet per second) faster, and if you can compensate the ignition timing, it WILL run and run well!!!

so please keep the questions, I should have this build completed at or around Christmas!! and gearing also, only street milage and dyno numbers will i post until spring at the track, then i will tune accordengly just to let everyone here know I'm no poser and I do back up what i say!!
God bless!!!

 

bigger motor at this time out of budget. Would love to make a 114 with it (4.250 bore with stock 4.00 stroke)
also at the stroker bigger motor, (a 103, 110, 120, and up) make so much torque, its hard to keep hooked up with anything but slicks and wheelie bars for all out drags. I'm making a "street" bike here!

 

FYI, most 4.250" bore engines don't stay together very long. Too many other ways to get to that displacement with a smaller bore and/or longer stroke with OEM hardware.

 

amen brother!! thats why im sticking with this 95" for now. Well that, and $$$$
about to tear down, received the sprockets and chain. waiting for gaskets!!

 

Go ahead on with your bad self ...

* * *

I am thinking you've probably already considered the following ... but ...

Are you still thinking about the 110 heads ...? You indicated in a previous post you have a head porter lined up (or in mind) ... would that be for the 110 heads or for the heads you are currently using ...?

Couple of observations ... I believe the combustion chamber of the 110 heads is sized for the larger displacement and will cause a decrease in your compression ratio (all other things remaining unchanged) ... so, in order to keep the same (thought you said 9.5:1) CR you would need to reduce the volume of the combustion chambers of the heads ...

Also, as I understand, there is some controversy with regards to flow ... having to do with greater volume flow vice higher velocity, laminar air flow ... although the 110 heads will no doubt flow more air, it is going to flow slower and there may be no benefit to be had ...

I tend to agree with you (with respect to not stroking the motor) ... will be more durable ... I suppose you've considered going oversquare (missed the bit about the 114" above) ... but, you have to bore the cases for the bigger spigots ... and that can create problems, too ...

Not too familiar with the 290 cams ... will have to look at the profiles ... a lot of guys report favorably with the Wood 6-6 ...

If you haven't seen his profile, do a search for forum member 'mud' (a moderator) ... he is running a 121" now, but started with 95" initially ... he's posted up a bunch of his quarter and eighth mile time slips and dyno charts ... I think he might have some info on his earlier builds ...

Good luck finding the info and opinions you're looking for ... and improving your times ...

R/
'Chop

 

Timi

Here's the link to referenced thread by moderator Mud **DYNO SHEETS* and/or *1/4 MILE TICKETS** ...

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-...e-tickets.html

R/
'Chop

 

Hello Timi
Have you managed to box up the motor and test it out. Our roads in the uk are all covered in salt and crap so its been a couple of weeks with out a ride for me. In the winter the bike has to much grunt for the wet roads. Looking back at the thread to see how you are doing but its a mad time of year to have spare time to work on bikes. I am a self employed Builder/ Joiner so have been flat out working but am off for two weeks hol's and will try to get in the garage to do a bit on my 1975 Triumph trident t160. When you get done post some feed back i am interested as to how you get on. A couple of thing from what you have said. I think the standard 88tc stroke is a good way to go with the bore as big as you can go with 95 inch as a safe bet for reliability. That said the next part is the tricky bit to match up all the other parts to get the best out of them they all need to be matched ( working together as a team and all pulling in the same direction). Piston to match head etc cams and valve duration and size all working together. Please note that i am not trying to give you tuning advice just to say take a step back and check that all the parts are a prescribed package to get you where you need to be. You mentioned about having to beef things up if you had to much torque. My screemin eagle/s&s package of 95 inch challenges the clutch on fast starts and will be my next upgrade when cash is there to do it.
Also i would say the last bit is a rolling road re map based on street pump fuel.
Have a good Christmas holiday.
regards Mike.

 

Manufacture struts in replacement of the shocks, and install a wheelie bar, that way once you warm the tire, you can leave at the same dedicated engine rpm, once determined, and you will have MUCH more consistant data collected, in a log book, in order for you to witness the changes you are making/going to make, to keep going quicker/faster.
With you sitting on the bike, and the tire pressure you are going to run, set the castor 2" off the ground on a flat/level surface.
Then paint the castor with white shoe polish, to witness if you have chassis flex, and adjust accordingly.
Not only will the wheelie bar allow you to collect consistant, but it is also a safety item.
BTW, if you use that 95cc chamber 110" head, your going to need a BIG piston, as you'll never surface that enough to establish the compression needed for dragstrip type power.
Once the BIG piston is introduced, by rights, the crank should be balanced(and welded, lightened) for that additional weight.
That Holley was a mistake from H-D.
They discontinued it as soon as it hit the shelf, and we have witnessed those here on our dyno.
Nothing special whatsoever, except that is much more complex than needed for what is happening.
A simple S&S G, bored, with a Thunderjet, and air horn, is all that 95"er will need, until you start really ripping, then a D series would be the answer.
Starightfoward, track-tune-friendly carbs.
Much more than meets the naked eye when it comes to approaching this type of activity.
Good luck, as I know all too well how the 1/4 mile fever can take over.
Scott

 

hello guys. fun to see all the remarks on this "idea" and "theories" and "thoughts" of mine.
THANK YOU ALL!!!
I have been mulling over all the input and although i haven't replied recently, HERE I AM!
first and formost, the crap i have in other threads on putting a 180/55/17 tire under a stock fender have been disproved!!
heres the recipe: duece 17" wheel, Shiniko 180/55/17 tire, stock wheel bearings, sleve, spacers, and rotor, heck i didnt even have to sweat it!! the only obst was the brake caliper has to be installed WITH the rotor!!
the clearence is tight, but fits with NO issues at all. hahaha to all you naysayers. KISS IT! i really tired of these people saying "it cant work cause my buddy said so and he has been a master tech for harley since 1903" KISS IT. GO TO THE TRACK WITH ME AND ILL PROVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!
heres the reason they say it wont work.: the 180mm (7.08") with the propper 5.5" width wheel, well dua... that wont work!, so here Eisenstein's. put that same tire on a 4.5" wheel and you have a 160mm (6.29") tire. hahaha. problem solved, no i can hear it now... "the aspect raito has changed and pulling the sidewall of the tire makes the tread more "rounder"." yes it does that theory is face and is true! but the compermise is worth the solution! im not stressing the tire road racing so no crazy sideloads will be experienced. only forward.
second thing is gearing. changing to chain drive has presented an unusual set of challenges. the rear sprocket was not clearing the tire (chain clearence sorry) so i had to get a carrier made for the sprocket.
REBELGEARS.COM REBEL GEARS.COM REBELGEARS.COM
they can make ANY sprocket for almost any application. Theyre my first and newest sponcer!! they helped me with the entire sprocket system!! front, rear, and chain. tell them Tim sent ya!!
ok plug over... i had to bring out the sprocket .250" and the front sprocket out .100 (i made my own spacer for that fyi)
heres the delima, if you do this, the stupid retaining ring bolts hit the inside primary housing. i found that out after putting it all together and going to roll it out to tk some pics, and the rear was locked!!! ugggh, ground the bolts down some, all is well.

so on to the motor, im going to leave it all like it is for now until i see how the gearing is going to be, too high, too low??? so until i get to the track, its gonna stay in its present configuration.
best time and et.. 11.84@110.7mph. thats at 790# and 3.50:1 final raito, with a dunlop 401 150/80/16 tire.
now a 4.23:1 geared shaved a few pounds (off me and the bike) so about 760# with a 180-55-17 shiniko hook up drag radial. calculator is predicting 11.20@119mph!!
drastic change for just a gear change!! but thats bench racing, the track tells the tale.
so again fellas, let me have it!! give me your input!!

 

Hello,
Well I have some data for you so far.
Let me say this, most ya hoos on this forum are "weekend warriors" and "a cam, pipes and air filter make me bad"
Trust me (I'm sure you know) I'm tired of them telling me I'm not a Harley dealer and I don't know squat. UUUGGGHHh
I have modified the combo and put it in use. Heres the hard facts.
22109-08a pistons. they are rated for 10.5:1 for the 95cc chambers.
cut the heads .030" and cc'd at 85cc's. with pistons 11.24 static compression.
S/e 264 cams. .635 lift, 264 dyuration intake, 262 exhaust. Made by comp cams.
S&S "G" with thunderjet (The Holley was moving WAY too much air, kept coughing when slamed open. added huge squirters, still coughed, did the timing thin too, nothing. Sold on Ebay) Hell of a top end tough!! didnt like the 95", now on a 124 and up, SERIOUSLY concider that carb!!! moves alot of air!! can bore for more, Holly makes 500 two barrels that can use the throttle blades and bore to about 72mm!!!! SERIOUS AIR BRO!!
on the dynojet using winpep7 std smoothing 3
ran 111 hp at 6400
103 tq at 5400
93 octane "Quick Trip" gasoline
WITHOUT TUNING ran 5 runs to get fuel maps and adjusted to stay at 13.
that run was at 12.7 at 5400 and 11.2 at 6400. so as you see, theres some on the table!!
best et to date (going racing tomm, so have some data soon, but as of yet 11.355 @117.89 mph
no wheelie bars, no air shifter, and tied for first in points, (Tomm is 2nd race of season) (first race rained out, hence the tie)
launching at 5500 and shifting at 6600.
oh and using all 5 gears!! lol
crossing line at 6400 in fifth gear.

So any suggestions on tuning?
timing comments?
using s/e adj ing. an eirlier version 4 maps and can go up 6 degrees and down 5 from any map
I made runs on #3 map. I wish i could tell you all details of the ignition but I dont have the maps
Thanks and God bless