Well 2023 Q3 Results are in...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 21,708
Likes: 17,550
From: Driftless Area
I get your irony, but events are different this time around you must admit. A foreign national is the CEO, with a management team and board of directors stacked from top to bottom with green woke DEI social justice warriors whose innermost desire is the elimination of the internal combustion engine (the very product they produce LOL what a bizarre situation) in order to save the planet. Does not bode well, but I hope the optimism that underlies your post (i.e. they always survive and come back strong and we pessimists are goombahs) proves correct.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,976
Likes: 1,880
From: SF Bay Area
Yep you heard it here on HDForums first. Harley Davidson will be out of business by April 2024, or bought by someone like Toyota or Elon Musk. Shoe Boy screwed up the company. My 2020 Fat Bob will be worth $50K in two years when Harley is no longer!
Say what you will about Shoe Boy (and I'm no Shoe Boy Fanboy), but he was put in charge in March 2020 just before the worst downturn since the 1929 and 2008 crash. (Both of which Harley survived).
He and Harley management kept the company alive during probably the worst consumer buying and supply chain constraint era since WWII.
I always find those GDP numbers interesting. Who vets them? Always good numbers when your candidate is up for re-election next year.
Harley is down just like all big ticket items including housing (in most areas). We American's love our loans and buying crap we can't afford, but will do so if the payments are low enough. Once interest rates went over 8% AND people could make 5% just keeping their money in the bank, big ticket purchases slowed down.
The company I work for Stock Price has sunk 59% in 12 months even though are sales grow ~20% year of year.
Say what you will about Shoe Boy (and I'm no Shoe Boy Fanboy), but he was put in charge in March 2020 just before the worst downturn since the 1929 and 2008 crash. (Both of which Harley survived).
He and Harley management kept the company alive during probably the worst consumer buying and supply chain constraint era since WWII.
I always find those GDP numbers interesting. Who vets them? Always good numbers when your candidate is up for re-election next year.
Harley is down just like all big ticket items including housing (in most areas). We American's love our loans and buying crap we can't afford, but will do so if the payments are low enough. Once interest rates went over 8% AND people could make 5% just keeping their money in the bank, big ticket purchases slowed down.
The company I work for Stock Price has sunk 59% in 12 months even though are sales grow ~20% year of year.
Last edited by Calif Fat Bob; Oct 26, 2023 at 02:51 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 84
Likes: 49
From: MN
As @ChrisHo showed, Touring bike sales are only marginally better, Sportsters (new model) are not selling as well as the old ones (because it is much more expensive while the old version was already overpriced, among other things), and the Pan America is accumulating dust at showrooms.
I am surprised that the Softail platform numbers remain good and gaining over last year, but I suspect this is only because of relief on capacity/supply chain constrains and they are now building more Softail bikes (which are selling...).
I am surprised that the Softail platform numbers remain good and gaining over last year, but I suspect this is only because of relief on capacity/supply chain constrains and they are now building more Softail bikes (which are selling...).
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 309
Likes: 172
From: Western New York
Keep making ugly *** clothing lines and selling bikes for over $50k and hiring service techs that are better suited for oil changes only and then charging Master tech rates. That will help your bottom line.
Very sad to be honest. I hope the Moco can hang in there for the long haul.
Very sad to be honest. I hope the Moco can hang in there for the long haul.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,976
Likes: 1,880
From: SF Bay Area
Last edited by Calif Fat Bob; Oct 26, 2023 at 04:51 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,106
Likes: 51,387
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
Gee, killing off the most popular and affordable entry level models, draconian control tactics with dealers, heavy price gouging and limiting numbers on what models are available couldn't possibly have any bearing on dropping sales now could they ?
Last edited by TwiZted Biker; Oct 26, 2023 at 07:59 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,563
Likes: 3,978
From: Virginia
The next 12-24 months will be interesting as the Fed continues to raise rates until enought folks are out of work that demand falls and pricess fall. Got a call from a HD sales guy following up on a "what's my trade" worth inquiry trying to push a new bike, told him I had cash set aside for a '23 or '24 but was waiting for prices to fall, he did not comprehend. Won't be long before they start to deal.
This morning my coffee got cold, f'n Joe Biden...
This morning my coffee got cold, f'n Joe Biden...
The era of free money is over, the last 10-15 years were an aberration that probably will never happen again in our lifetimes. The financial crisis at the end of the Bush term was pretty close to sending the US economy into a depression type spiral not seen since the 30's. The only way to keep the ship afloat was to cut interest rates to zero for a decade. Then covid happened and the economy shut down for over 15 months due to federal and local mismanagement of the pandemic response coupled with an uncommon lack of goods due to supply chains freezing up causing GDP to fall and inflation to rise.
Here is a look at mortgage rates thru the last few decades:Decade
Mortgage rate near the beginning of the decade Mortgage rate at the end of the decade
1970s
7.33% 12.9%
1980s
12.9% 9.78%
1990s
9.83% 8.06%
2000s
8.15% 5.14%
2010s
5.09% 3.74%
2020s
3.72% 8.0%
Last edited by kojak; Oct 26, 2023 at 05:57 PM.
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 543
From: SC
and creating every dealership a monopoly.