H-D "clones" ?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 18,464
Likes: 3,723
From: backwoods
Not sure how loans get stolen in 90s.
People were building bikes back then a bit. Especially during chopper craze. I remember looking at DK at the kits of entire bikes for sale. LIke I said by buddy a shop owner was selling lots of them. Catalogues were full of frames, I haven't looked to see if it is so common any more.
Ya bikes got stolen and pieced out. Not sure as common as it was, now that harleys are cheap. My state doesn't run numbers to register. You could have cops run VIN, not sure how fast they can do it. If you would get it in time for sale.
People were building bikes back then a bit. Especially during chopper craze. I remember looking at DK at the kits of entire bikes for sale. LIke I said by buddy a shop owner was selling lots of them. Catalogues were full of frames, I haven't looked to see if it is so common any more.
Ya bikes got stolen and pieced out. Not sure as common as it was, now that harleys are cheap. My state doesn't run numbers to register. You could have cops run VIN, not sure how fast they can do it. If you would get it in time for sale.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 9,570
Likes: 7,943
From: Long Island, New York
They would buy the bike for the minimum down payment and a loan from HD. Make a couple of payments and then bike gets "stolen". Insurance company pays off the note and you have a brand new HD sitting in your buddies garage. Now you buy new cases and a frame, swap all the parts over and for $2-3K you basically have a new bike bike with a "Custom" title. Sounds like a lot of work, but we were young and dumb, your time was free.
It happened a lot in NYC back then. I actually got ribbed for still paying my loan, apparently it was soooo easy doing it the wrong way!!!!!!!
It happened a lot in NYC back then. I actually got ribbed for still paying my loan, apparently it was soooo easy doing it the wrong way!!!!!!!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 2,205
Not something I'd want to attempt. In some states that might be a piece of cake. In others you'd never be able to register it.
That would be a felony here, and probably everywhere, and probably was then, too. And if you tried to register the other frame, the first thing most states are going to do is check the numbers on the major components, and as soon as the engine comes back stolen, you'd have a lot of explaining to do. Between the insurance fraud and having possession of "stolen" property that no longer belongs to you after you settle the insurance claim, you could end up in prison for something like that. Which is the whole reason states scrutinize these types of title/registration transactions, because there are shady people out there doing essentially what you're talking about here.
You'd probably be better off actually stealing someone else's motorcycle and gutting the components or changing the VIN. At least then it'd only be 1 or 2 felonies rather than the number of them you'd have to consider to accomplish what you're suggesting, which includes insurance fraud, fraudulent interference with the lien on that note, probably forgery for lying on the forms to get title/registration, and being in possession of stolen property after you settle the insurance claim. There might be double jeopardy problems with the judge sentencing you to a separate prison term for some of those, but in the end, the total prison time would probably be less to straight up steal someone else's motorcycle than it would to concoct a series of lies to register something that included stolen parts obtained by an insurance fraud scheme that could be traced to you.
They would buy the bike for the minimum down payment and a loan from HD. Make a couple of payments and then bike gets "stolen". Insurance company pays off the note and you have a brand new HD sitting in your buddies garage. Now you buy new cases and a frame, swap all the parts over and for $2-3K you basically have a new bike bike with a "Custom" title. Sounds like a lot of work, but we were young and dumb, your time was free.
It happened a lot in NYC back then. I actually got ribbed for still paying my loan, apparently it was soooo easy doing it the wrong way!!!!!!!
It happened a lot in NYC back then. I actually got ribbed for still paying my loan, apparently it was soooo easy doing it the wrong way!!!!!!!
You'd probably be better off actually stealing someone else's motorcycle and gutting the components or changing the VIN. At least then it'd only be 1 or 2 felonies rather than the number of them you'd have to consider to accomplish what you're suggesting, which includes insurance fraud, fraudulent interference with the lien on that note, probably forgery for lying on the forms to get title/registration, and being in possession of stolen property after you settle the insurance claim. There might be double jeopardy problems with the judge sentencing you to a separate prison term for some of those, but in the end, the total prison time would probably be less to straight up steal someone else's motorcycle than it would to concoct a series of lies to register something that included stolen parts obtained by an insurance fraud scheme that could be traced to you.
Last edited by downzero; Apr 17, 2024 at 10:58 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 9,570
Likes: 7,943
From: Long Island, New York
Not something I'd want to attempt. In some states that might be a piece of cake. In others you'd never be able to register it.
That would be a felony here, and probably everywhere, and probably was then, too. And if you tried to register the other frame, the first thing most states are going to do is check the numbers on the major components, and as soon as the engine comes back stolen, you'd have a lot of explaining to do. Between the insurance fraud and having possession of "stolen" property that no longer belongs to you after you settle the insurance claim, you could end up in prison for something like that. Which is the whole reason states scrutinize these types of title/registration transactions, because there are shady people out there doing essentially what you're talking about here.
You'd probably be better off actually stealing someone else's motorcycle and gutting the components or changing the VIN. At least then it'd only be 1 or 2 felonies rather than the number of them you'd have to consider to accomplish what you're suggesting, which includes insurance fraud, fraudulent interference with the lien on that note, probably forgery for lying on the forms to get title/registration, and being in possession of stolen property after you settle the insurance claim. There might be double jeopardy problems with the judge sentencing you to a separate prison term for some of those, but in the end, the total prison time would probably be less to straight up steal someone else's motorcycle than it would to concoct a series of lies to register something that included stolen parts obtained by an insurance fraud scheme that could be traced to you.
That would be a felony here, and probably everywhere, and probably was then, too. And if you tried to register the other frame, the first thing most states are going to do is check the numbers on the major components, and as soon as the engine comes back stolen, you'd have a lot of explaining to do. Between the insurance fraud and having possession of "stolen" property that no longer belongs to you after you settle the insurance claim, you could end up in prison for something like that. Which is the whole reason states scrutinize these types of title/registration transactions, because there are shady people out there doing essentially what you're talking about here.
You'd probably be better off actually stealing someone else's motorcycle and gutting the components or changing the VIN. At least then it'd only be 1 or 2 felonies rather than the number of them you'd have to consider to accomplish what you're suggesting, which includes insurance fraud, fraudulent interference with the lien on that note, probably forgery for lying on the forms to get title/registration, and being in possession of stolen property after you settle the insurance claim. There might be double jeopardy problems with the judge sentencing you to a separate prison term for some of those, but in the end, the total prison time would probably be less to straight up steal someone else's motorcycle than it would to concoct a series of lies to register something that included stolen parts obtained by an insurance fraud scheme that could be traced to you.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 2,205
I remember very carefully what one of my least favorite teachers told me a long time ago: "a thief conveys no title."
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,347
Likes: 820
From: Moneta, Virginia
I met a guy with Heritage Softail clone in the early 90s
the owner was so proud.
Most of the trim parts didnt fit quite right. It looked okay from 20 not so much from 6
Most of the trim parts didnt fit quite right. It looked okay from 20 not so much from 6
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2021
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From: backwoods
Which is why I laugh the threads asking what they should do, when things vary so much from state to state.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,126
Likes: 51,457
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
This is NOT about the low-production bikes like Big Dog.
In the early '90's (when H-D's were in high demand) I was at a bike shop in Wisconsin and I was amazed to see so many new bikes (Dynas I believe) that they had siting in their showroom.
I was talking to one of their salespersons when I mentioned this he says "these aren't Harleys".
Those bikes were "built" using all H-D parts and were nearly visually identical to a H-D with the exception of the frame.
The ONLY distinctions that I could find (visibly) between a H-D and one of those bikes was "their" bikes DID NOT have a keyed fork lock and the VIN number DID NOT start with the alpha (H-D) numeric designation.
I have no idea of how many of these bikes may have been built but they were interesting.
In the early '90's (when H-D's were in high demand) I was at a bike shop in Wisconsin and I was amazed to see so many new bikes (Dynas I believe) that they had siting in their showroom.
I was talking to one of their salespersons when I mentioned this he says "these aren't Harleys".
Those bikes were "built" using all H-D parts and were nearly visually identical to a H-D with the exception of the frame.
The ONLY distinctions that I could find (visibly) between a H-D and one of those bikes was "their" bikes DID NOT have a keyed fork lock and the VIN number DID NOT start with the alpha (H-D) numeric designation.
I have no idea of how many of these bikes may have been built but they were interesting.