Could LiveWire actually >save< Harley?
Supporter
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 412
Likes: 208
From: Bothell, WA
Looking at the demand in the market for naked sport bikes, does anyone else think that Harley could not build a 1250 and a 750 based "Bronx" fast enough to keep up with sales? Add a 350 for the new riders.
Not the current target market, but a big market out there, as well as following the smaller bike trend that Triumph and Royal Enfield are jumping on.
Not the current target market, but a big market out there, as well as following the smaller bike trend that Triumph and Royal Enfield are jumping on.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 510
Likes: 377
From: Dixie
Electric vehicles will be virtually dead...again...in another few years. People were lied to about the dangers fossil fuels posed to the environment, and once those sheep wake up...it's over.
Their next crusade will be saving the lives of the children forced to work in the rare earth mines to fuel their batteries...and Greta Whatshername will become the spokesperson for Exxon...
I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the investigation into where all the Federal Government money went to supposedly pay for charging stations that don't exist.
All IMHO, of course...
Their next crusade will be saving the lives of the children forced to work in the rare earth mines to fuel their batteries...and Greta Whatshername will become the spokesperson for Exxon...
I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the investigation into where all the Federal Government money went to supposedly pay for charging stations that don't exist.
All IMHO, of course...
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,172
Likes: 4,245
From: U.S.A. Upstate N. Y.
Live Wire
They sold 30 in the first quarter of 2025. World wide.
The live wire was one of the biggest wasted of money Harley has ever made.
In a word ,A Flop.. Saving Harley should be ending any affiliation with the live wire. End the stupidity of wasting money on a marking mistake.
The live wire was one of the biggest wasted of money Harley has ever made.
In a word ,A Flop.. Saving Harley should be ending any affiliation with the live wire. End the stupidity of wasting money on a marking mistake.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 18,474
Likes: 3,723
From: backwoods
If electric was the way to go then why are most of the players going under? Truth is the government is funding most all of this and as those funds dry up, they cannot stay a float. The dirt bike market is a pretty good fit for what the current battery technology does support, but for an open road type bike iout.
I do agree once the funding runs out, have to see. I will guess, though just like they do with the gassers car companies will give 5k off to get you to buy.
i am a redneck who only owns American trucks. But I do believe this a piece of the future, and I believe faster than people think.
They are renting electric snow bikes. I hear they are a blast. As said in this thread the power of the dirt bikes is incredible, as is the cars I am also told.
I am redneck, but I do get the appeal of not gassing up. I gas up every other day.
Carter was thankful for Biden. As is the who ever said to design the vrod like they did. Though the vrod engines are in the pan ams. They missed the boat 20 years ago.
Last edited by Rounders; May 7, 2025 at 05:26 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 18,474
Likes: 3,723
From: backwoods
To be clear I am not saying harley should make this dirt bike, or an electric bike will work for them. Though I also don't rule out in 10 years or so the livewire technology will pop up again, the vrod.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 117
From: ARIZONA
Harley had a bike that was very much like a Grom. It was the Sportster 883. Nothing was complicated on the bike, they had a simple engine with a VAST catalogue of factory and aftermarket parts. They had the tooling and the production know how to simply keep pumping them out.
They could have made the engines as a 500 cc Twin, with the same crank as an 883/1200. 500cc to a 1000cc big bore kit, simple tuners. They could have drastically dropped the price of the bike and made the SEPST cheap too. Make it truly an entry level bike to get into a genuine USA made Harley.
Nope, gotta kill it because Puma Boy thought he could turn HD into the Mercedes of the Motorcycle world. Well guess what Zeitz, even MB has the CLA250 as an entry level MB. And hurr durr it wouldnt stay Euro compliant.
Ok, then keep it USA only. Let the grey market figure out getting it to Europe.
Livewire? Electric dirt bikes as paths to Harley?
No, Harley becoming a motorcycle maker truly of all styles and price points like Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki would save Harley. There is NO reason Harley can't stand up a super sports division, a dedicated dirt division, an ATV division. Harley ON PURPOSE boxes themselves into the heavy cruiser market.
You find a CEO that can stop this Harley as a premium brand BS and turn it into a POWER SPORTS company with full portfolio, then we have a Harley that can survive.
They could have made the engines as a 500 cc Twin, with the same crank as an 883/1200. 500cc to a 1000cc big bore kit, simple tuners. They could have drastically dropped the price of the bike and made the SEPST cheap too. Make it truly an entry level bike to get into a genuine USA made Harley.
Nope, gotta kill it because Puma Boy thought he could turn HD into the Mercedes of the Motorcycle world. Well guess what Zeitz, even MB has the CLA250 as an entry level MB. And hurr durr it wouldnt stay Euro compliant.
Ok, then keep it USA only. Let the grey market figure out getting it to Europe.
Livewire? Electric dirt bikes as paths to Harley?
No, Harley becoming a motorcycle maker truly of all styles and price points like Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki would save Harley. There is NO reason Harley can't stand up a super sports division, a dedicated dirt division, an ATV division. Harley ON PURPOSE boxes themselves into the heavy cruiser market.
You find a CEO that can stop this Harley as a premium brand BS and turn it into a POWER SPORTS company with full portfolio, then we have a Harley that can survive.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 18,474
Likes: 3,723
From: backwoods
What I don't like is the fancy bikes the last couple years. Maybe the goal is to only sell higher end models, or the goal was to customize to what they thought people were doing with them. LIke the silly trend of high bars.
Right now a dresser is 2-3k over a goldwing BMW LT, it supposed to be closer, and I think it should stay closer.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 18,474
Likes: 3,723
From: backwoods
Maybe something like buell was 20 years to soon. A different style bike, not harley branded, but adjacent and using the dealer network. The vrod, was just to far out there, and should have been put in a touring bike or something that looked normal. Blame Willie.
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 117
From: ARIZONA
And THAT is precisely why idiots like Zeitz took the MoCo where we are now.
You CAN NOT rely on a single luxury segment to survive for a MOTORCYCLE. Bugatti, Rolls Royce, Ferrari are all brands that are status luxury brands. They build and price their cars accordingly with little regard for aspirational purchases. You either have **** you money to buy them or you don't.
The touring line shouldnt be exclusive to 100k RRs or $40k fully loaded bikes. The Road King is a testament to that.
Harley is motorcycle company that has a very large customer base problem. Going UP market won't support their operation. They need to become a power sports company to attract as many different entry level riders to the brand. And don't tell me Harley never did. Look at the 60's and 70's.
Was Evil Knievel riding a full dresser doing his stunts? Were flat track racers slinging Street Glides around corners? The Pan American SHOULD be their entry INTO the full dirt market. But Zeitz is ****ing that up.
And here we are today.
You CAN NOT rely on a single luxury segment to survive for a MOTORCYCLE. Bugatti, Rolls Royce, Ferrari are all brands that are status luxury brands. They build and price their cars accordingly with little regard for aspirational purchases. You either have **** you money to buy them or you don't.
The touring line shouldnt be exclusive to 100k RRs or $40k fully loaded bikes. The Road King is a testament to that.
Harley is motorcycle company that has a very large customer base problem. Going UP market won't support their operation. They need to become a power sports company to attract as many different entry level riders to the brand. And don't tell me Harley never did. Look at the 60's and 70's.
Was Evil Knievel riding a full dresser doing his stunts? Were flat track racers slinging Street Glides around corners? The Pan American SHOULD be their entry INTO the full dirt market. But Zeitz is ****ing that up.
And here we are today.
Last edited by ebeattie; May 8, 2025 at 09:17 AM.
