help stop grinding into first...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,227
Likes: 5
RE: help stop grinding into first...
Some of this advice is total BS...Some of it is almost good....None of it is correct!
True the tranny is a constant mesh unit a previously posted. But so are virtually 100% of the manual transmissions in cagers.
First - Your clutch may need adjusting. Follow the Service Manual directions.
Second - If I may explain. When at idle the entire transmission is rotating. The input shaft (main drive gear) is rotating the countershaft, which is rotating every gear on the mainshaft. Yet the bike is not moving because the "drive gears" or speed gears are rotating on the mainshaft.
Once you clutch, the maindrive gear begins to slow and given enough time will eventually stop it's rotation. Once the maindrive gear slows or stops the transmission can be shifted wothout scratching. The sheer mass of the gears and the inertia of that mass is what decides how long to wait before shifting. So to answer your question, pull in the clutch and wait. This is the very reason why I dont shift to neutral at stop lights. The synchro (think brake) ring acts as a brake to help slow the rotating mass so that the "dog teeth" may line up for a smooth shift.
THE ABOVE APPLIES ONLY TO CLUTCH ENGAGED IDLING IN NEUTRAL SCENARIO.
ps. each time you hear that grind you a grinding away the points of the "dog teeth" which after a given time may become dull resulting in harder shifts and contaminated oil due to metal filings.
So pull in you clutch and wait......
True the tranny is a constant mesh unit a previously posted. But so are virtually 100% of the manual transmissions in cagers.
First - Your clutch may need adjusting. Follow the Service Manual directions.
Second - If I may explain. When at idle the entire transmission is rotating. The input shaft (main drive gear) is rotating the countershaft, which is rotating every gear on the mainshaft. Yet the bike is not moving because the "drive gears" or speed gears are rotating on the mainshaft.
Once you clutch, the maindrive gear begins to slow and given enough time will eventually stop it's rotation. Once the maindrive gear slows or stops the transmission can be shifted wothout scratching. The sheer mass of the gears and the inertia of that mass is what decides how long to wait before shifting. So to answer your question, pull in the clutch and wait. This is the very reason why I dont shift to neutral at stop lights. The synchro (think brake) ring acts as a brake to help slow the rotating mass so that the "dog teeth" may line up for a smooth shift.
THE ABOVE APPLIES ONLY TO CLUTCH ENGAGED IDLING IN NEUTRAL SCENARIO.
ps. each time you hear that grind you a grinding away the points of the "dog teeth" which after a given time may become dull resulting in harder shifts and contaminated oil due to metal filings.
So pull in you clutch and wait......
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,306
Likes: 5
From: Bellville, Tx
RE: help stop grinding into first...
The cut of the gears has no effect on shifting, they are constant mesh. If you get a grinding it is because the clutch is cold and the plates are stuck together whether wet or dry plates. If at first startup, idle it down to normal, kick it good(pop it)to engage 1st while holding the clutch in. It should break loose and be fine after that. It's a good idea to be holding the front brake at the same time.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,227
Likes: 5
RE: help stop grinding into first...
[quote]ORIGINAL: DeJavu
The cut of the gears has no effect on shifting, they are constant mesh.
Agreed [sm=icon_cheers.gif] The cut of the gear, ie.helical, amboid or straight does not affect shiftability. The cut of a gear affects noise.....
The cut of the gears has no effect on shifting, they are constant mesh.
Agreed [sm=icon_cheers.gif] The cut of the gear, ie.helical, amboid or straight does not affect shiftability. The cut of a gear affects noise.....
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 76
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RE: help stop grinding into first...
ORIGINAL: RoadKingRon1
Some of this advice is total BS...Some of it is almost good....None of it is correct!
True the tranny is a constant mesh unit a previously posted. But so are virtually 100% of the manual transmissions in cagers.
First - Your clutch may need adjusting. Follow the Service Manual directions.
Second - If I may explain. When at idle the entire transmission is rotating. The input shaft (main drive gear) is rotating the countershaft, which is rotating every gear on the mainshaft. Yet the bike is not moving because the "drive gears" or speed gears are rotating on the mainshaft.
Once you clutch, the maindrive gear begins to slow and given enough time will eventually stop it's rotation. Once the maindrive gear slows or stops the transmission can be shifted wothout scratching. The sheer mass of the gears and the inertia of that mass is what decides how long to wait before shifting. So to answer your question, pull in the clutch and wait. This is the very reason why I dont shift to neutral at stop lights. The synchro (think brake) ring acts as a brake to help slow the rotating mass so that the "dog teeth" may line up for a smooth shift.
THE ABOVE APPLIES ONLY TO CLUTCH ENGAGED IDLING IN NEUTRAL SCENARIO.
ps. each time you hear that grind you a grinding away the points of the "dog teeth" which after a given time may become dull resulting in harder shifts and contaminated oil due to metal filings.
So pull in you clutch and wait......
Some of this advice is total BS...Some of it is almost good....None of it is correct!
True the tranny is a constant mesh unit a previously posted. But so are virtually 100% of the manual transmissions in cagers.
First - Your clutch may need adjusting. Follow the Service Manual directions.
Second - If I may explain. When at idle the entire transmission is rotating. The input shaft (main drive gear) is rotating the countershaft, which is rotating every gear on the mainshaft. Yet the bike is not moving because the "drive gears" or speed gears are rotating on the mainshaft.
Once you clutch, the maindrive gear begins to slow and given enough time will eventually stop it's rotation. Once the maindrive gear slows or stops the transmission can be shifted wothout scratching. The sheer mass of the gears and the inertia of that mass is what decides how long to wait before shifting. So to answer your question, pull in the clutch and wait. This is the very reason why I dont shift to neutral at stop lights. The synchro (think brake) ring acts as a brake to help slow the rotating mass so that the "dog teeth" may line up for a smooth shift.
THE ABOVE APPLIES ONLY TO CLUTCH ENGAGED IDLING IN NEUTRAL SCENARIO.
ps. each time you hear that grind you a grinding away the points of the "dog teeth" which after a given time may become dull resulting in harder shifts and contaminated oil due to metal filings.
So pull in you clutch and wait......
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,227
Likes: 5
RE: help stop grinding into first...
Hey Pipedream..Hope this works for ya..As an aside, I don't agree with running Syn 3 in the tranny. A good 75w140 works best. An added benefit is that the thicker viscosity will aid in slowing the rotation of the gears.....
enjoy the ride....
enjoy the ride....
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,306
Likes: 5
From: Bellville, Tx
RE: help stop grinding into first...
The gears will only slow down if not driven by a clutch that is still engaged due to cold heavy oil or stiction, there is no positive release of the clutch, it relies on the plates being free to spin. That is usually not the case with most if not all Harley clutches when cold. I can appreciate the "theoretical" explaination of the inner working of the trans, but that only applies if the clutch is actually disengaged! If not those gears will be spinning and reluctant to engage the dogs, in reality!
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 7
From: Bedford , Pa
RE: help stop grinding into first...
I agree 100% with RoadKing Ron and it sounds like he isn't just a weekend Mechanic. I don't use Syn3 in my tranny either ,I use Red Line shock proof tranny fluid and it all most got rid of all my clunks and grinds.I never shift in to nuetral at a light either for 2 reasons ,the tranny and a saftey factor for a quick get a way if it looks like I am going to be rearended by somebody not paying attention
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
From: Newport TN
RE: help stop grinding into first...
Hay pipe dream you can almost totally stop the clunk by first shiftin from neautral into 2nd gear and then down into first gear. make sure yur clutch is adjusted correct too.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis, IN
RE: help stop grinding into first...
Hmmm.. I can not believe that no one here has stated the obvious solution to this problem yet....PULL clutch, then SHIFT, not SHIFT then PULL clutch!! 
[sm=joke.gif]
[sm=joke.gif]