Harley "new" image
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
From: Greenwood, IN
Harley needs to be very, very careful. They will never be able to compete head to head with metrics because of the purchase price point.....anymore than the USA GM, Ford and Chrysler have been able to effectively, consistently compete against Toyota, Honda or Nissan. (forget the few winners like corvette, or mustang).
Even Cadillac today is a modern version of their old selves...high price and performance
GM and Chrysler especially are on the ropes because they are basically truck companies. When the population wants trucks and will pay for them, they are golden.
Harley-Davidson may actually go under eventually. Or it may go back to a niche market where you order your custom bike, wait for it, and are part of a special group like some of the fringe brand automobiles. What it cannot do without imploding, is attempt to match the metric technology and performance. That would be like having CART racing split from Indy Car...oh yeah, they did and several years later are back together after one went bankrupt...it just doesn't work.
Harley-Davidson is NOT MAINSTREAM mass produced America, that's the big difference.
Even Cadillac today is a modern version of their old selves...high price and performance
GM and Chrysler especially are on the ropes because they are basically truck companies. When the population wants trucks and will pay for them, they are golden.
Harley-Davidson may actually go under eventually. Or it may go back to a niche market where you order your custom bike, wait for it, and are part of a special group like some of the fringe brand automobiles. What it cannot do without imploding, is attempt to match the metric technology and performance. That would be like having CART racing split from Indy Car...oh yeah, they did and several years later are back together after one went bankrupt...it just doesn't work.
Harley-Davidson is NOT MAINSTREAM mass produced America, that's the big difference.
Club Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 30,914
Likes: 16
From: Springfield, Ohio
My only beef with HD so far, is the crummy suspension and brakes. IMO, there's just no reason why they can't use some better components for the premium price they charge. But again, as someone else pointed out, it's the markets fault; Harley has realized that they don't have to put good suspension and brakes on their bike to sell them for top dollar. Which I suppose is why they quit making the nice adjustable bits from the FXDX.
You'd think you were in heaven nowadaysI think Harley has caught up a lot more than people think.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,653
Likes: 18
From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
+1
My 1980 Low Rider was great. Even two up, the suspension worked fine, and never had a problem stopping. Of course, it had dual discs on the front.
I wish they came with oil coolers as standard equipment like on my '80 model.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 17,625
Likes: 1,665
From: Blairsville GA
I get a smile out of reading all of the things that are wrong with Harleys, from people that ostensibly ride and like Harley Davidson motorcycles. I'm sure no one forced you to buy a Harley. If what you really wanted was a Goldwing or a BMW or a bamboo bullet you could have bought one. Harley makes and sells bikes to people that want to buy Harleys. The performance characteristics and capabilities of Harleys are well known, and they also offer an extensive demo ride program for those that don't want to take other people's word for it.
Harley's marketeers, geniuses that they are, have recognized that people age, and that new consumers come to the market all the time. They are taking a flier and assuming that some of these new consumers may not have their opinion of how a bike and rider look based in the 1960's. As such they are trying a different marketing approach to these people. Nothing wrong with that either.
Motorcycles really only come in two flavors: American or European with distinct characteristics, or Japanese with emulation of the saleable characteristics of the round-eye bikes, at a lower price. The japs build a great bike and dollar for dollar you get a lot of bang for your buck. However, if you want a Ducati or a BMW or a Harley it really doesn't matter what the Asian imitation is, you want the real thing.
And if someone really wants a "performance" Harley, they should check out a Buell. Buell's are not winners in the spec sheet Grand Prix, and that's all some people think about. However, in the real world of twisty roads a Buell is as quick and fast as anything made anywhere.
Harley's marketeers, geniuses that they are, have recognized that people age, and that new consumers come to the market all the time. They are taking a flier and assuming that some of these new consumers may not have their opinion of how a bike and rider look based in the 1960's. As such they are trying a different marketing approach to these people. Nothing wrong with that either.
Motorcycles really only come in two flavors: American or European with distinct characteristics, or Japanese with emulation of the saleable characteristics of the round-eye bikes, at a lower price. The japs build a great bike and dollar for dollar you get a lot of bang for your buck. However, if you want a Ducati or a BMW or a Harley it really doesn't matter what the Asian imitation is, you want the real thing.
And if someone really wants a "performance" Harley, they should check out a Buell. Buell's are not winners in the spec sheet Grand Prix, and that's all some people think about. However, in the real world of twisty roads a Buell is as quick and fast as anything made anywhere.
Last edited by DaddyKnuck; Feb 28, 2009 at 10:52 AM.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,492
Likes: 2
Looking around, it seems that Harley is really making a reach for younger riders that have the X-games mentality. All new videos and pics showing skateboarders, snowboarders,and other extremes sports. I am glad to see Harley catering to us. I snowboard all winter long and ride the rest. Is Harley successfull at moving away from its core market or is this just a branch out to attract the fringe elements? Or is a skateboarder just turning off the older crowd? And as to the dark custom..BRAVO! but the 2009 streetbob should be removed. The silver motor takes away from the concept of "dark"...even if it has a denim paint job.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
From:
All have great points. I guess the sales will dictate the direction. Harley is mainstream now. The biker culture is mainstream also. OK I laughed and saw myself in Wild Hogs, but snowboarders and skateboarders are todays rebel image. Someone else posted about OCC selling stuff on QVC. Selling an image and also a way of life. but then again, at least more people are being exposed to riding ( not sure how GOOD of a thing that is). I guess point price is key with the future of Harley. They can't sell them at these prices now and only getting more frugal. Here in CT they cant give away a bike.I have a friend in HD marketing where they track sales and all the demographics of buyers and it sucks. Either way, I love my bike and love my Harley t-shirt that they gave me with bike purchase. I couldnt afford another one after buying the bike!
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
From: Central Illinois
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
From: Brunswick, OH
I don't doubt that that's true, but there's just no reason they can't fit some nice sportbike brakes on bikes that cost as much as Harley's do. I'm sure they're better than they used to be, but they're certainly a few steps behind.
Suspension is more subjective I suppose, so it's hard to please everyone. Kinda like seats.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
From: North Central Arkansas
Wow! This thread is so... deep!
I don't know how I can add substantially to it except to say this: the Harley we have now is our first Harley. There are some very disappointing things about it and about the Company and it's dealerships. The thing is... I've never owned any costly thing that didn't disappoint in one way or another.
On the other hand, the things that disappoint me about the Harley are things that ought not to be! The loud tranny (5th gear sucks), the too-low gearing, the excessive heat and lack of power, the embarrassingly loud shifting (when metrics are so quiet!), the poor ergonomics, the weak frame, the inadequate suspension, etc.
These are the the things that disappoint me about the Company (do they even read these threads? do they even care?). But you know, I somehow can't find it in me to be disappointed in the bike. I love this bike. It has become more a part of me than any bike I've ever owned before.
I'm at a loss to explain this phenomenon, but I think it's the thing that keeps the Company from going belly up.
We just love our darn bikes so much in spite of the crap the MOCO shoves our way that we continue to buy them.
It's the price of admission into something larger and more important than any other bike manufacturer can come up with. It's the heritage of a thing bigger than we are.
In that, it's a double-edged sword. It's a beautiful thing we're trapped by, in a strange kind of way. Kind of like a mistress, or a lover.
I don't know how I can add substantially to it except to say this: the Harley we have now is our first Harley. There are some very disappointing things about it and about the Company and it's dealerships. The thing is... I've never owned any costly thing that didn't disappoint in one way or another.
On the other hand, the things that disappoint me about the Harley are things that ought not to be! The loud tranny (5th gear sucks), the too-low gearing, the excessive heat and lack of power, the embarrassingly loud shifting (when metrics are so quiet!), the poor ergonomics, the weak frame, the inadequate suspension, etc.
These are the the things that disappoint me about the Company (do they even read these threads? do they even care?). But you know, I somehow can't find it in me to be disappointed in the bike. I love this bike. It has become more a part of me than any bike I've ever owned before.
I'm at a loss to explain this phenomenon, but I think it's the thing that keeps the Company from going belly up.
We just love our darn bikes so much in spite of the crap the MOCO shoves our way that we continue to buy them.
It's the price of admission into something larger and more important than any other bike manufacturer can come up with. It's the heritage of a thing bigger than we are.
In that, it's a double-edged sword. It's a beautiful thing we're trapped by, in a strange kind of way. Kind of like a mistress, or a lover.