Question i am buying to be exact a high flow forward facing air cleaner kit for my 2008 1200 custom and was wondering if it would require a fuel pak???? I already have V&H long shots and do not have a fuel pak and the bike run great....Just dont want to melt my motor u know.

 

It'll help it to run better. So will about a dozen other tuners of various kinds.

 

Since you have already done the pipes and now just changed the intake, you will need a tuner. Can be fuel pack or whatever brand you prefer, but you do need to reprogram the ecm

 

thanks

 

how much does that run??? ballpark

 

Alllowme to copy from Mike at Latus Motors...

How does the EFI system work in simple terms?
The EFI system used on most 06 and earlier models is an open loop system. This system is essentially ?dumb? in the sense that it supplies fuel based only on the programmed (calibration) values in the tables that control the injectors. These calibration values are programmed by H-D to match the amount of/how an average stock motor, and its associated components, processes air at any given rpm, load and throttle opening. Environment changes (temperature, altitude, etc) are handled by offset tables which collect information from sensors (IAT, ET, MAP, etc) to modify the main tables. There are ?Tuning Constants? that define the overall operational parameters such as motor size, injector size and rev limit. Another offset is the AFR table which uses a mathmatical formula to change the known tailpipe AFR base tuned value (when motors are stock using the original mapping) to the "desired AFR" for best fuel milage and low emmissions. The calibration values are fixed in the open loop system (until physically changed via remapping) and the ECM is incapable of identifying changes in air flow caused by component changes and corresponding needs to make fuel or other calibration changes to synchronize air/fuel or correct constants.
06 Dyna?s and all 07L models (except 07 V-rod) added O2 sensors in the exhaust systems to provide a ?closed loop? capability. Production variables of the components used in and affecting the EFI system cause corresponding fuel and air flow differences from bike to bike as manufactured. The fixed, ?open loop?, system does not compensate for these differences (just as it cannot compensate for component changes). The Closed Loop O2 sensing system provides feedback, within a limited AFR and specified operating range, to compensate for these production variables, reducing overall emissions. This added feature can compensate for mild component changes but does not memorize those changes (there is an "Addaptive Fuel Value" offset based on the avereage O2 required corrections which moves the entire VE tables rich /lean by +- 10%, remembered and constantly adjusting). This means that each time the ignition key is cycled, the O2 correction (O2 integrator) is at zero and must resample to establish the required correction. The bike may exhibit erratic running, until this is accomplished, each time it is restarted if the required correction values are large.

When do I need to recalibrate my ECM?
Whenever the amount of, or how the motor processes air is changed! Period!!! The major components influencing air flow are the exhaust system, air cleaner, motor size, heads and cams. If any of these are changed, the fuel (via the VE and AFR tables) and, typically, the tuning constants table in the ECM must change to match (synchronize) both the increases and decreases in air flow and physical characteristics of the motor caused by those component changes.
On ?closed loop? models, the above is true when the changes exceed the O2?s capability to compensate, to reduce the amount of correction required of the O2's or to change tuning constants (motor size, injector size, etc).
In addition, there are certain ?behind the scenes? tables that have strategies to add fuel for extended high rpm running or heat management, retard timing for knock control or heat management, injector off timing to reduce decal pop, change VE values (O2 equipped models AFV) or even to deal with high rpm downshifts in efforts to prevent engine damage or reduce ECM workload in extreme cases. Even with Race Tuner, we normally do not have access to these tables and cannot change them. These stratigies/tables may be different from cal to cal and so, having the most appropriate base cal helps these to be closer to, or more correct, for the application.


What are my options to recalibrate the ECM?

1. O2 ?closed loop? models with 50 state legal H-D SE mufflers ONLY installed when used with the stock air cleaner in place, do not require recalibration. Note that with the addition of just an air cleaner, a recalibration is recommended (option 2).

2. H-D Digital Technician (DT) or individual ?reflash cartridge? calibrations when ALL components are H-D products and COMPLETELY match the component combination for which each individual calibration was created. Depending on the combination, many are available either through Digital Technician or, for older models, through one time use only ?reflash? cartridges (until supplies are exhausted). These cals, also, typically raise the rev limits.

3. Screaming Eagle Race Fueler-HD. This is a ?piggy back? device that modifies the signals sent from the ECM to the injectors. Early versions ONLY ADD fuel; later versions add and subtract fuel. It has limited capability and is an acceptable option when minor changes using NON-HD components, such as aftermarket mufflers or air cleaners, are used with an otherwise stock engine. It does so by dividing the RPMs into 3 ranges and then allows adjustment of each range through trim pots. It is an injector pulse width modifier or signal intercept. It does not alter any of the main values or tables within the ECM. It must remain on the motorcycle to function. Dose not raise the rev limits above the existing ECM cal. Can be used with DT cals. Easy for owners to make adjustments.

4. Screaming Eagle Race Tuner-HD (SERT). This is a comprehensive tuning software program that allows for direct reprogramming of the main ECM and most of its parameters. This would be used with changes beyond ?add-ons? such as big bore/motor kits, ported heads, cams or exotic exhaust systems where ?reflash? cartridges (option 2) or Race Fueler (option 3) are not appropriate or do have the range/resolution to compensate. It allows access and changes to many tables such as VE (front and rear separately), Spark timing (fr/rr), cranking fuel, warm up enrichment, Idle Air Control Motor steps, decel enleanment, accel enrichment, O2 active parameters, O2 bias, rev limit, tuning constants and idle speed. Additionally, activation/deactivation of certain features such as Knock Control, Heat Managment (EITMS) and Automatic Compression Releases (ACR). Race Tuner also has data monitor/record, fault code (DTC) read/clear, ECM I.D. and data graphing capability (same data set as Digital Technician). The included CD has a calibration list for many H-D Screaming Eagle combinations which can be used when the combo matches or as base calibrations from which to custom tune, in affect creating your own ?reflash cartridge?. Race Tuner Tuning Mode locks to the first ECM on which it is used and cannot be used to recalibrate other bikes' ECMs. Changes can be done and downloaded to that ECM an unlimited number of times and an unlimited number of calibrations can be created. The Data Mode feature can be used to monitor and/or record data on ANY Delphi EFI bike. This tool has the greatest capability of any product currently on the market. Does not remain on the bike after tuning. No additional failure point. Largest and most comprehensive R&D/testing history of any tuning product. Rapidly growing dealer support and knowledge/tuning network. Does require proficient knowledge/experiance. H-D offers PHD courses to dealers for Master level technicians in its use. Owners can make tuning changes themselves via a laptop and the included user manuals.

4.1. Latus Motors offers custom mapping. Since we have mapped 100's of bikes, we have an extensive map file data base. These maps are for sale to SERT owners when one exists that matches an individuals combination. If the match is not exact but close, these can often be used as a base from which to fine tune, reducing possible dyno/mapping time for local tuners where getting the bike to Latus is not practical. These are available through our Internet Sales Dept via e-mail, CD or other media. Certain disclaimers apply.

5. Power Commander-Aftermarket. This is a piggy back device that uses signal intercept/modifier to change fuel and spark. The USB version allows separate front and rear tuning, rev limit, cranking fuel and accel enrichment changes. New features are often available as downloadable upgrades on-line. Dynojet has a very large map file data base on-line, available as free downloads. It does not change the values within the main ECM, tuning constants and many of the other tables available through Race Tuner. We recommend H-D reflash cals to be used with Power Commander for this reason and so that PC table values are reduced (reducing large or max'd out values). The reflash could also allow for continued running of the bike should the PC fail and require removal until it can be repaired/replaced. Must remain on the bike to function. An additional possible failure point. Finding a good mounting location can be problematic on some models. Does not permanently change main ECM values or I.D.?s. Large support and knowledgeable tuning network. Greater number of proficient tuners/shops (vs SERT) available. Good support via Dynojet and internet forums. Latus has a small map file data base available for individual map purchase, when the combo matches. Latus Motors is a certified Power Commander tuning center and offers both "Basic" (both cylinders tuned as one) and "Advanced Mode" (each cylinder tuned individually, USB versions only) custom mapping.

6. Other Systems-Aftermarket. There a number of other products offered by the aftermarket including some self learning ?auto tune? complete systems, piggy back modifiers and new product releases regularly. All have there place and may be good choices for specific requirements or when used in package form with those makers other products. These systems may not have proficient tuners available and have limited support.

At this time we have made a conscious decision not to be experts with all the various systems but to concentrate on a chosen few. These are currently SE Race Tuner and Power Commander. It simply is not possible for us to be proficient with all the different systems on the market and trying to do so could translate into less than satisfactory results for our customers. Many of these systems have less than adequate support. This does not mean we are unaware or ignorant of these, other systems, and we may be investigating some to be offered through us in the future.

Mike

 

Your choices are:
Harley Super Tuner around 450, then a dyno job around 450 total 900.
Master Tuner TTS around 450, then a dyno around 450 total 900.
Stage one down load from a Harley dealer around 150
Now prices vary depending on where you buy them and on how good your guy operating the tuner is.
If you’re not seeking the “perfect” tune the stage one down load will work fine. This is what I have on my wife’s 2008 Deluxe and it runs out real nice. It may be a little warmer than a perfectly tuned bike however she doesn’t push it.
A good tuner should get the job done in about 4 hours at your local rate.
I found a Master Tuner for 350 however that was a onetime deal.
Now if you can operate your laptop you could put together a map from the Master Tuner and up load it to your bike and it would be better than the stage one however still not “perfect”.
Then there are the fuel packs which I’ve seen on clearance for 45 buck and new ones at 350. These devices stay on the bike and send a signal into the ECM that causes it to dump in more fuel and so on.
You could also buy those resisters that go in between the O2 sensors that send a false signal into the ECM also. I have several friends that have them and they do fine. They cost around 100 I think.
Anyway you have a ton of options out there. It just all depends on what you’re looking for. With the modifications you have done you should do something though.

 

is that latus in your area or oregon

 

Neither WGBob - That comment was taken off the old HD-Latus forum page.

 

Just saying "Fuel Pak" is easier than all that stuff.