-moved here because I don't have a solution yet-


Yeah, I agree with you on that. I do most of the service on my bike: Oil changes, wheel bearings, cables, and the like, plus minor repairs (lots of them it seems: Does HD make an electric horn that lasts?). I even installed a factory cruise control on the bike (I posted on this site the install) when HD didn't offer one for the FLHS. I've got both the service and parts manuals for this bike, plus the internet which is probably of greater value anyway. The dealers in my area are up to $75 per hour on labor and there is no way in Hell that I'm going to pay that (unless I'm stuck on the road like I was) for an easy repair (like replacing a battery--1 hour labor charge at some dealers). I always keep the bike clean, covered and out of harms way. It's filthy right now after riding in two days of rain, and having the oil leaks, because I didn't want to clean any of the oil off until the shop could take a look at it. (For $300 you'd of thought the HD dealer would've sprayed a little S100 on it and hosed it off for me.) My intention was to take it home after the shop looked at it and clean it up before they would work on it. But even though I'm retired (which equates to less $$$) and have the time, I've got too many expensive projects underway right now. And I'm looking for an 'easy way out' on this problem, rather than embarking on another possibly expensive educational experience.

When I was killing time at the shop with the owner's wife I mentioned that the dealers didn't want to work on the old bikes. I can perhaps understand not having anyone around that knew everything about a knuckle or pan, but an Evo? Come on. She knew exactly what I was talking about hearing the same story from others. She also says there is such a shortage of experienced mechanics, alot of the dealers hire directly from the schools (Perhaps that's why the dealers refer to them as Technicians: They have no concept of what makes things work unless they can plug it in and have a computer diagnose it for them). Nothing against the schools, but damn, you should have some background or experience. She told me that they've had a lot of people what to work for them, but was amazed by the number of those applicants that didn't even own a bike. Everyone at this shop came to work on a bike. I know as I was sitting there (broken down) as they all pulled in. The owner of the shop, who is also the head wrench, said, "I'm going to have to take it apart." I said simply, "Go ahead."

"Just make it stop leaking oil."

 

Hackd don't know were you have gotten with this rocker box leak, but it sounds like you are getting pressure biulding up inside the motor. I would check the vents in the heads and from the case if you have one. The breather gear that mates up to the cam gear could be out of time, but I'm not sure if this would cause the rocker boxs to leak. It sounds like to be pressure is building up and being forced out the rocker boxs.

 

When I had the rocker boxes off the last time, I checked all the oil return passages along with the breather to the carb...They all were open.

As far as the breather goes, that's exactly what I was thinking, but the shop that did the top end in the fall of 2003 assured me that they triple check the timing before they re-install the cam cover. Like I posted in the engine forum, the bike went back to them three times. The last time he had it for almost six weeks, so I was getting the feeling that they didn't want to deal with it (or me) anymore. I told them that I'd pay to check the breather timing, which they did (or at least that's what they said) and (of course) it was okay....But they installed an S&S steel breather in place of the plastic HD one.

I guess I'll find out when the new shop takes it all apart.

 

HAckd,
I'd say your problem trumps mine. My advice would be to find an old wrench who started out on knuckles , pans and shovels. They know things and tricks the new guys don't. Like Stkman, it seems like a pressure buildup problem. If it only ocurs at a certain rpm or highway speed, that would make sense. And as for the f*ckers keeping your bike 6 weeks.........no way dude.....

Keep us informed

Bubba

 

Yeah, I'll keep everyone posted. With most of the Harley 'stealerships' (credit to tripl8 for that one!) backed up 3+ weeks doing whatever they are doing to the bikes they have, I've gotten used to waiting for any sort of difficult repair. I'll start 'bugging' the shop the end of this week as it will have been ten days since it died in their parking lot.

The owner of the shop where the bike is at now said the same thing, that it's building up pressure in the engine. Okay, after eight sets of rocker box gaskets, I knew that already. Oh, and the rear base gasket is leaking again (what started the whole top end project). But like he also said, he'll have to 'take it all apart' to see what got put together wrong during the top end rebuild.

The bike runs good, or at least it seems to run good...When it's running. Hope I get it back without the leak and the charging issues before I do something rash...I've been looking at new KT1200LT's and Goldwings...

 

Went over to the shop where the Harley is at since it's been two weeks and haven't heard anything yet. Talked with the owner and he said the only thing that it could possibly be is it's got a severe blow-by problem. They had already done a preliminary disassembly/assembly of the rocker boxes to check for obstructions. They ended up doing pretty much what I had done the last two times I'd replaced the gaskets: Check the passages, breather, etc. Nothing unusual. Took the bike for a test ride and when it was back at the shop they listened to the rocker box gaskets blowing air by. Sooooo.....

Then the owner (Bill) says, "Come on back (in the shop), it's easier to show you what I'm talking about." They had taken the engine apart: Heads, Cylinders, Cam cover (which did have a S&S steel breather correctly installed by the original shop). The previous shop had put .005 oversize pistons in and honed the cylinders. I watched as the Bill mic'd the cylinders, they were both out of round. In some spots: Way out of round. Then I watched as he removed a piston ring and put it in the cylinder to check the end gap: .030 when it should be .012. Crappy job of honing the cylinders and fitting the pistons/rings to them. The piston tops had a lot of burnt oil on them, not carbon...Burnt oil. Not what you'd expect on a motor that only has around 4000 miles on the 'fresh' top end. Oh, yeah, before someone jumps on this, I did do the recommended 500 mile S&S style break in procedure. As time consuming as it was, I never cheated on it. Plus I was real easy on the motor for the next 1500 miles. Not that I'm hard on it anyway.

The heads were also supposedly freshened up by the previous shop. Another crap job. I watched Bill remove the valves on one of the heads: They weren't even sealing at the seats! There was so much blow-by on the intake valve that there was burnt oil in the intake port. So much for precision workmanship. Bill said that the heads weren't causing the gasket problem, but they weren't making the bike run as good as it should.

So I'm looking at another top end rebuild. New pistons: .010 over this time, rings, and honing. Gonna have to redo the heads, so I'm having him port them (what he calls stage I) and he says that he'll raise the compression ratio from the 8.5:1 it has to something like 9.5:1. Which he says will make the EV27 cam along with the porting of the heads work much better. Plus he's going to install a S&S reed style breather valve which he has used on his personal drag bike with excellant results. I'm also having him install the modification to the cylinders that prevents the base gaskets from pooling oil and leaking. Which readers of this thread will recall as the reason I had all this work done in the first place. The new shop says that the bike will run unbelieveably better when their done with it. I hope so, although I thought it was running pretty well before. Not that I've ever had anything else to compare it to. I've been screwing around with this for the last two and a half years, so I don't think I've got much recourse against the previous shop that did the crappy work. Other than to warn others about them.

Oh yeah, the charging problem: Turns out the plug on the voltage regulator to stator was full of oil. I've no idea how this could of happened unless the dealer that replaced the regulator put some grease or oil in the socket. They cleaned it out and said the charging system is fine.

More to follow.

 

Six weeks tomorrow....Yep, that's how long my Harley-f#@kin'-Davidson has been in the shop. Stopped by there last Friday, and all the owner could say was, "Soon." I asked him "how 'soon' was 'soon', before Labor Day?". I casually reminded him it had been five weeks already (sort of hinting at he shouldn't have taken it all apart if he wasn't gonna fix it right away). His response: "Five weeks is nothing during riding season. You know how long it would take a dealer?" He was obviously having a bad day, but I wasn't being a p*&^k about it (not yet anyway), just wanted to get a straight answer.

Sure hope they can find all the parts, and the sheet metal and paint hasn't been destroyed, when it finally comes time to put it back together. I should have just torn it all down myself (like I swore I would do), and farmed out the machine work.

 

Update: July 31 8PM EDT

Motorcycle shop called....The Harley is done. Gonna pick it up tomorrow...We'll see what condition it's in after almost seven weeks.

 

Sorry Hackd to hear it turn into that big of a problem. Sounds like you will have a strong running motor, give it a good break in period and change the oil then go ride the **** out of it.

 

More Problems.....Seems that the bike's heads are shot. The present shop re-did them, new guides, porting, etc. They took the scooter out for a ride (twice) and everything was fine. This morning when they started it, smoke starts rolling out the exhaust. This really, really, really sucks!!!! Owner of shop said they must of gotten cracked when the last knucklehead worked on them... I don't know one way or the other, but I do know that when I took the bike to the present shop, it didn't smoke like this. It just leaked oil.

Now he'll have to get me a new used set of heads, probably in black as they are more plentiful then the silver ones. Oh, and he ran a hose from the head breathers down and around the motor, instead of just reusing the original Screaming Eagle setup I had. It looks like crap. I'm a hack, but I tell you this: I wouldn't let something go out of my shop looking this crappy. I don't know about you, but when I see half-*** work on the minor stuff, I begin to wonder about how the major stuff was done. I'm not having a crappy length of hose dangling from my bike. He's going to have to fix that when he tears it apart again. I don't know who I hate more: Harley-Davidson or the people that think they know how to work on them. Like I said before, I probably should've just tore it down myself.

But I do know one thing for sure: This piece of Milwaukee crap is gonna be for sale...If and when I ever get it back.