Optimal kPa
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Road Master
Joined: May 2012
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From: Between purgatory and retirement
Optimal kPa
If your idle kPa is 31 at sea level, what is it at WOT at sea level?
With those settings, what would your idle kPa be at 5000 ft.?
What would your WOT kPa be at 5000 ft.?
( And what would the decel kPa be? )
What is more important, level and smooth VE tables or a low idle kPa?
What would be the optimal idle kPa at sea level for a touring bike that would travel at different altitudes?
.
Last edited by IKnowNot; Sep 29, 2016 at 09:25 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
So, you're adjusting your CDE tables to reduce your idle kPa?
If your idle kPa is 31 at sea level, what is it at WOT at sea level?
With those settings, what would your idle kPa be at 5000 ft.?
What would your WOT kPa be at 5000 ft.?
( And what would the decel kPa be? )
What is more important, level and smooth VE tables or a low idle kPa?
What would be the optimal idle kPa at sea level for a touring bike that would travel at different altitudes?
.
If your idle kPa is 31 at sea level, what is it at WOT at sea level?
With those settings, what would your idle kPa be at 5000 ft.?
What would your WOT kPa be at 5000 ft.?
( And what would the decel kPa be? )
What is more important, level and smooth VE tables or a low idle kPa?
What would be the optimal idle kPa at sea level for a touring bike that would travel at different altitudes?
.
You goal of adjusting CDE is not to get a certain KPA for idle. It is to smooth VE tables in the area that you cruise at most of the time around 60kpa to help smooth the running on the engine. Tooth count or IVO setting are what is used to maybe change the idle KPA.
What is more important? IMO A smooth running engine where you spend most of your time. Idle KPA is a range. Mid 30's to 40's. Bigger the build w/ heads, cams, TB........ are going to idle higher.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
To answer the other part of your question, mine says 101 or 102 at WOT and engine off.
In a previous conversation Steve (TTS) didn't think that measured MAP should change with a change in CDE/EGR but I've noticed that both PV and FP3 exhibit this behaviour. I would have thought that the MAP sensor reading was what the pressure actually was and internal calculations were left to the internal workings rather than confusing us wondering what it should be, but there you go.
In an older discussion on the subject it was posed that the lower your no-load kpa was the more of a range was available to map out the range of load ...idle at 30 - load range 30-100 vs 45-100 for example. Sort of makes sense but then again, maybe irrelevant.
I've got two maps, one idles at 30 the other at 40 ...they both pretty much ride the same and VE tables look just as smooth as each other. I just thought that because the numbers moved, there was maybe a right one to aim for, but unless you know exactly what the PV is doing with those numbers, all bets are off.
In a previous conversation Steve (TTS) didn't think that measured MAP should change with a change in CDE/EGR but I've noticed that both PV and FP3 exhibit this behaviour. I would have thought that the MAP sensor reading was what the pressure actually was and internal calculations were left to the internal workings rather than confusing us wondering what it should be, but there you go.
In an older discussion on the subject it was posed that the lower your no-load kpa was the more of a range was available to map out the range of load ...idle at 30 - load range 30-100 vs 45-100 for example. Sort of makes sense but then again, maybe irrelevant.
I've got two maps, one idles at 30 the other at 40 ...they both pretty much ride the same and VE tables look just as smooth as each other. I just thought that because the numbers moved, there was maybe a right one to aim for, but unless you know exactly what the PV is doing with those numbers, all bets are off.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
To answer the other part of your question, mine says 101 or 102 at WOT and engine off.
In a previous conversation Steve (TTS) didn't think that measured MAP should change with a change in CDE/EGR but I've noticed that both PV and FP3 exhibit this behaviour. I would have thought that the MAP sensor reading was what the pressure actually was and internal calculations were left to the internal workings rather than confusing us wondering what it should be, but there you go.
In a previous conversation Steve (TTS) didn't think that measured MAP should change with a change in CDE/EGR but I've noticed that both PV and FP3 exhibit this behaviour. I would have thought that the MAP sensor reading was what the pressure actually was and internal calculations were left to the internal workings rather than confusing us wondering what it should be, but there you go.
I have never seen the EGR affect idle kpa directly. I have set IVO at the beginning of the tune, and do EGR adjustment during the mapping of the VE tables. I have noticed from after the IVO setting to finished mapping that my kpa has been lower. I have always blamed this on having the VE mapped correctly and not because of EGR adjustments. MAP readings are usually smoother along with idle.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
I think Steve was hinting that PV CDE is maybe not the same as TTS EGR, or not implemented the same or something. But my PV definitely does just that?! change the CDE and it affects the MAP value reported by the logs. (but MAP Sensor Voltage, also available for logging, remains the same)
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I am talking 2-3 kpa. I know you reported much more than that. It would be nice to have how it works in the vision explained. I doubt that will happen with the vision being made by a third party and all, and that third party isn't in the industry.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2012
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From: Between purgatory and retirement
You said you have two maps, one that idles at 30 kPa, another that idles at 40 kPa.
Is there a difference in the decel area between the two?
Where would those decel areas be at higher altitudes?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
my bad english, I meant running at WOT or when the engine is off
Not sure what difference you are thinking about but if you mean the VE tables then yes, CDE will affect any cell in the 0-60kps range around whatever rpm you made the change in the CDE table.
If you meant MAP value reading, then if I remember correctly 30 at idle deceleration was down about 20, 40 at idle it was only down about 25
At altitude atmospheric kpa is lower (about 90 at 3000ft for example). Tuning your bike at altitude will give slightly different VE tables to tuning it at sea level ...I can't remember which way around it goes tho
If you meant MAP value reading, then if I remember correctly 30 at idle deceleration was down about 20, 40 at idle it was only down about 25
At altitude atmospheric kpa is lower (about 90 at 3000ft for example). Tuning your bike at altitude will give slightly different VE tables to tuning it at sea level ...I can't remember which way around it goes tho
Road Captain
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 555
Likes: 39
From: France
don't forget to work your Map Load Normalisation table BEFORE doing CDE & VE as it will affect both
My bike with IVO/IVC set for the cams, idle a 40kpa and decelerate at 16kpa, WOT read around 97kpa at all rpms
My bike with IVO/IVC set for the cams, idle a 40kpa and decelerate at 16kpa, WOT read around 97kpa at all rpms
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