Where to begin?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,732
Likes: 9,241
From: Snow Hill, NC
Me, I would go with a power vision 4 with a canned map, it's economical and from Fuelmoto, you will be supported. Comes right to your phone and you dump it into the device and bam... It's what i'm going with.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
With email tuning it's hard to say it's not tuning "YOUR bike" when the changes they are making are based off a data log you supply them from YOUR bike. The person tuning the bike makes a far bigger difference than method of how it is tuned.
An in person/ dyno tuner is going to be doing the exact same thing just in real time without the back and forth of the communication via email. They're still basing the changes they're making off of the data from a previous run, only made a little more simple to see where or what needs changed with the aid of the TQ/HP vs RPM graph data and possibly a more accurate AFR reading. No doubt in person tuning is the fastest way to get to an optimal map, but I'd argue a competent email tuner like FuelMoto who have done thousands of bikes (and probably tuned more bikes than 95% of in person tuners) via email and in person can get you 99% of the results of a competent in person tuner. A bad tune is a bad tune whether it is from email or in person.
That said I have run canned maps and auto tune on my bike, and had it dyno tuned in person and I am much happier with the in person tuning. As well as I have done email tuning with my truck I drive nearly every day, and I am extremely happy with that as well. I'd argue comparing email tuning vs in person is ignorant, as a good tuner can do both and is using the same information to make changes whether he is in person or doing it via email. Email tuning is just going to take longer to get to that optimal point. I mean after all Pete Harrel tunes 5 and 6 second pro-mod drag cars over email with winning results...
An in person/ dyno tuner is going to be doing the exact same thing just in real time without the back and forth of the communication via email. They're still basing the changes they're making off of the data from a previous run, only made a little more simple to see where or what needs changed with the aid of the TQ/HP vs RPM graph data and possibly a more accurate AFR reading. No doubt in person tuning is the fastest way to get to an optimal map, but I'd argue a competent email tuner like FuelMoto who have done thousands of bikes (and probably tuned more bikes than 95% of in person tuners) via email and in person can get you 99% of the results of a competent in person tuner. A bad tune is a bad tune whether it is from email or in person.
That said I have run canned maps and auto tune on my bike, and had it dyno tuned in person and I am much happier with the in person tuning. As well as I have done email tuning with my truck I drive nearly every day, and I am extremely happy with that as well. I'd argue comparing email tuning vs in person is ignorant, as a good tuner can do both and is using the same information to make changes whether he is in person or doing it via email. Email tuning is just going to take longer to get to that optimal point. I mean after all Pete Harrel tunes 5 and 6 second pro-mod drag cars over email with winning results...
What about throttle response?
Seriously, you have no clue how much better it could be til you have it done right. Others have posted the difference in black and white yet it's ignored. You are kidding yourself and in all likelihood leaving considerable power and rideability on the tab!e except you just don't know it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
Not everyone that spends thousands of dollars on their engine wants to take a $500 shortcut to mediocrity.
Does the PV4 even work? Last we heard from DJ it did not.
Last edited by 60Gunner; Dec 16, 2023 at 06:58 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,732
Likes: 9,241
From: Snow Hill, NC
Do you have any idea how many emails it will take with different data files? Do you seriously think adjusting the timing under various loads is black and white? It took a competent tuner with a dyno and numerous other programs as tools an entire day to properly tune my engine. A couple emails? It's laughable.
What about throttle response?
Seriously, you have no clue how much better it could be til you have it done right. I have done it both ways. So have others. You are kidding yourself and in all likelihood leaving considerable power on the tab!e except you just don't know it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
So now we have tune by phone? Incredible. What's next? Tune by satellite? Or maybe plug it into the wall for 15 minutes and presto. Just like making popcorn.
Not everyone that spends thousands of dollars on their engine wants to take a $500 shortcut to mediocrity.
Does the PV4 even work? Last we heard from DJ it did not.
What about throttle response?
Seriously, you have no clue how much better it could be til you have it done right. I have done it both ways. So have others. You are kidding yourself and in all likelihood leaving considerable power on the tab!e except you just don't know it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
So now we have tune by phone? Incredible. What's next? Tune by satellite? Or maybe plug it into the wall for 15 minutes and presto. Just like making popcorn.
Not everyone that spends thousands of dollars on their engine wants to take a $500 shortcut to mediocrity.
Does the PV4 even work? Last we heard from DJ it did not.
You go ahead and spend and do whatever you want with your bike and money. The majority of us are casual riders or touring riders and just need a dependable tune that works. Not splitting atoms.
Thread Starter
|
HDF Community Team
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,881
Likes: 4,442
From: Texas
Originally Posted by 60Gunner;[url=tel:21491193
21491193[/url]]Do you have any idea how many emails it will take with different data files? Do you seriously think adjusting the timing under various loads is black and white? It took a competent tuner with a dyno and numerous other programs as tools an entire day to properly tune my engine. A couple emails? It's laughable.
What about throttle response?
Seriously, you have no clue how much better it could be til you have it done right. I have done it both ways. So have others. You are kidding yourself and in all likelihood leaving considerable power on the tab!e except you just don't know it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
So now we have tune by phone? Incredible. What's next? Tune by satellite? Or maybe plug it into the wall for 15 minutes and presto. Just like making popcorn.
Not everyone that spends thousands of dollars on their engine wants to take a $500 shortcut to mediocrity.
Does the PV4 even work? Last we heard from DJ it did not.
What about throttle response?
Seriously, you have no clue how much better it could be til you have it done right. I have done it both ways. So have others. You are kidding yourself and in all likelihood leaving considerable power on the tab!e except you just don't know it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
So now we have tune by phone? Incredible. What's next? Tune by satellite? Or maybe plug it into the wall for 15 minutes and presto. Just like making popcorn.
Not everyone that spends thousands of dollars on their engine wants to take a $500 shortcut to mediocrity.
Does the PV4 even work? Last we heard from DJ it did not.
Which PV did you suggested earlier? The larger touchscreen PV2-B? Im wondering what makes that worth the $200 more than the PV3/4. Are there more capabilities for a dyno tune with the PV-2B?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
From Dynojet...
Thanks for taking the time to write such honest feedback - I'm really sorry for the trouble the app has given you. I'm the software engineering manager at Dynojet - I architected PV4 and wrote a lot of the firmware and directed the team of contractors that built the apps. The firmware is robust, reliable and highly optimized, but unfortunately, the piece people have to interact with is the app. PV4 has a lot of potential - it's a project I've been really excited about for a long time, but it hasn't come out the way we intended. We took a chance on using third party developers for the app portion, and largely, that's really bitten us. The good news is that we're working on pulling app development in-house, which will help us get back on track. We intended for a lot of the features everyone wants to be done WAY earlier, but we had to stop and re-write the app from scratch (that's why you see the legacy version) and that ate up a bunch of the time and budget we had allocated for Autotune and other features. Everything is still coming, but it's (unfortunately) been delayed until we can hire a mobile developer, which we are in the process of doing (I've written this, literally, between reading resumes).
For what it's worth, the app developers are in the middle of rewriting the Bluetooth code to make it more reliable because we've seen a lot of people struggling to connect to their devices - in addition, I see you're having some trouble with the screen turning off on the live gauge screen, and I'll make sure to get a wake-lock inserted into the gauge screen in the next release (we have one in the pipeline that fixes a bunch of stuff right now, pending final internal testing). In addition, if you want to view logs, I'd recommend installing the beta version of Power Core - you can do this by going to the app launcher, going to settings, and checking the "Get more recent bug fixes and updates with beta releases", which contains support for the new PV4 style logs. We're also in the process of releasing these changes as part of the main distribution, but testing takes quite a while and there are a LOT of pieces to check.
Anyhow, I apologize for the trouble, we ARE working to improve the app, and please don't hesitate to reply with any requests or other changes you'd like to see in PV4!
Best Regards,
Grant Pearson
Dynojet Research
For what it's worth, the app developers are in the middle of rewriting the Bluetooth code to make it more reliable because we've seen a lot of people struggling to connect to their devices - in addition, I see you're having some trouble with the screen turning off on the live gauge screen, and I'll make sure to get a wake-lock inserted into the gauge screen in the next release (we have one in the pipeline that fixes a bunch of stuff right now, pending final internal testing). In addition, if you want to view logs, I'd recommend installing the beta version of Power Core - you can do this by going to the app launcher, going to settings, and checking the "Get more recent bug fixes and updates with beta releases", which contains support for the new PV4 style logs. We're also in the process of releasing these changes as part of the main distribution, but testing takes quite a while and there are a LOT of pieces to check.
Anyhow, I apologize for the trouble, we ARE working to improve the app, and please don't hesitate to reply with any requests or other changes you'd like to see in PV4!
Best Regards,
Grant Pearson
Dynojet Research
Cruiser
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 149
Likes: 80
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Since that post there have been no significant changes from what I can tell with the architecture or design of the app. Dynojet has just recently pulled down the mobile developer position opening they had on their career page so perhaps we'll begin to see some improvement in the future or they've abandoned the project and no longer need to fill the position. Time will tell. But if all you want to do is load a map and nothing more it may be fine if you have a phone that will connect bluetooth. However at this point I'd suggest if you want anything other than a flash tuner look elsewhere. Don't expect any other features to work reliably as the app is fully dependent on WiFi or cellular connectivity prior to attaching to the hardware device.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,732
Likes: 9,241
From: Snow Hill, NC
That post was 2 months ago. He was replying to my original post from June or so. You can read the entire thread here. https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...n-android.html
Since that post there have been no significant changes from what I can tell with the architecture or design of the app. Dynojet has just recently pulled down the mobile developer position opening they had on their career page so perhaps we'll begin to see some improvement in the future or they've abandoned the project and no longer need to fill the position. Time will tell. But if all you want to do is load a map and nothing more it may be fine if you have a phone that will connect bluetooth. However at this point I'd suggest if you want anything other than a flash tuner look elsewhere. Don't expect any other features to work reliably as the app is fully dependent on WiFi or cellular connectivity prior to attaching to the hardware device.
Since that post there have been no significant changes from what I can tell with the architecture or design of the app. Dynojet has just recently pulled down the mobile developer position opening they had on their career page so perhaps we'll begin to see some improvement in the future or they've abandoned the project and no longer need to fill the position. Time will tell. But if all you want to do is load a map and nothing more it may be fine if you have a phone that will connect bluetooth. However at this point I'd suggest if you want anything other than a flash tuner look elsewhere. Don't expect any other features to work reliably as the app is fully dependent on WiFi or cellular connectivity prior to attaching to the hardware device.
Last edited by Notgrownup; Dec 16, 2023 at 01:06 PM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
Personally, having a PV myself since the TTS had availability issues due to covid, would rather they got one working as good as the TTS before coming out with newer versions for an app on your phone. Just more convenience over function. I would rather they stop with the musical parameters that come and go because they don't work right. Method of delivery doesn't matter and i prefer to tune on a laptop actually.