PC or SERT needed???
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
There are a lot of people on this forum that say the ECU flash is a waste of $$, especially when the dealers charge $150. for it.
What you need is a judgement call. The bike will run without any mods to the EFI, but perhaps not as good as you would like and perhaps with exhaust pops. The story is the same for 08 through 10 bikes, the 09s came from the factory slightly richer. The ECU will adjust the closed loop but not the open loop portions (idle and WOT), or not enough. You will typically run a bit lean there.
If you want the thing to run spot on then don't waste your time with downloads or piggyback units. The current school of though is the TTS will get you there and, if you use sweat equity to save dyno time cost, your out of pocket is $400 to $500. I've seen numerous posts where a guy tunes his bike with TTS, takes it to a dyno tuner later only to be told that the bike was spot on, nothing more they could do. 95% there is a conservative estimate. A great tuner will alway be able to get more, however, but the rate of return on your investment won't be that great.
Several forum sponsors sell the TTS tuning kit. Any shop that does SERT or SEST can use TTS, except HD dealers for political reasons.
What you need is a judgement call. The bike will run without any mods to the EFI, but perhaps not as good as you would like and perhaps with exhaust pops. The story is the same for 08 through 10 bikes, the 09s came from the factory slightly richer. The ECU will adjust the closed loop but not the open loop portions (idle and WOT), or not enough. You will typically run a bit lean there.
If you want the thing to run spot on then don't waste your time with downloads or piggyback units. The current school of though is the TTS will get you there and, if you use sweat equity to save dyno time cost, your out of pocket is $400 to $500. I've seen numerous posts where a guy tunes his bike with TTS, takes it to a dyno tuner later only to be told that the bike was spot on, nothing more they could do. 95% there is a conservative estimate. A great tuner will alway be able to get more, however, but the rate of return on your investment won't be that great.
Several forum sponsors sell the TTS tuning kit. Any shop that does SERT or SEST can use TTS, except HD dealers for political reasons.
Last edited by ColdCase; Jan 22, 2010 at 07:32 AM.
I bought my 09 FLHT in August and paid $120 for the download (20% off) and installed my SE intake/V&H slip-ons later on that week. I have since bought a SEST but haven't mated it yet. My bike runs very well with the download and the MOCO warranties your bike with this without questions. Can't be too awful bad ???
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
Troop
If you haven't mated the SEST yet, sell it and get the TTS. Reason...each time you change your bike's configuration (mods) you can do the reconfiguration yourself so much easier with the TTS VTune than the SEST.
Canned maps, such as the so called stage 1 flash is not for your bike but for a close configuration. How close? I hear an average of 70% approximation or less. Yes, many run fine with canned maps but others want that extra 30% for the bike to run clean, with less heat and more TQ. You add cams or port your heads later then you have to pay for a Dyno guy to remap your bike. You just keep paying over and over.
We could spend all day beating this subject into the ground. There are hundreds of discussions on this exact point and it normally comes down to personal satisfaction. In a nutshell... If you are satisfied with your bike and it runs fine then use the flash but if you want a bike that performs correctly get the TTS. It's easy to use and learn.
If you haven't mated the SEST yet, sell it and get the TTS. Reason...each time you change your bike's configuration (mods) you can do the reconfiguration yourself so much easier with the TTS VTune than the SEST.
Canned maps, such as the so called stage 1 flash is not for your bike but for a close configuration. How close? I hear an average of 70% approximation or less. Yes, many run fine with canned maps but others want that extra 30% for the bike to run clean, with less heat and more TQ. You add cams or port your heads later then you have to pay for a Dyno guy to remap your bike. You just keep paying over and over.
We could spend all day beating this subject into the ground. There are hundreds of discussions on this exact point and it normally comes down to personal satisfaction. In a nutshell... If you are satisfied with your bike and it runs fine then use the flash but if you want a bike that performs correctly get the TTS. It's easy to use and learn.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Likes: 15
From: Lewes De
Is HD the only ones who can do the flash on the ECM?
I just contacted the HD dealer and questioned them on doing the flash on the ECM. They told me that by doing the flash, I will most likely experience popping or back firing on decel. They also said it was 200.00 bucks.
Is HD the only ones who can do the flash on the ECM?
Is HD the only ones who can do the flash on the ECM?
Troop
If you haven't mated the SEST yet, sell it and get the TTS. Reason...each time you change your bike's configuration (mods) you can do the reconfiguration yourself so much easier with the TTS VTune than the SEST.
Canned maps, such as the so called stage 1 flash is not for your bike but for a close configuration. How close? I hear an average of 70% approximation or less. Yes, many run fine with canned maps but others want that extra 30% for the bike to run clean, with less heat and more TQ. You add cams or port your heads later then you have to pay for a Dyno guy to remap your bike. You just keep paying over and over.
We could spend all day beating this subject into the ground. There are hundreds of discussions on this exact point and it normally comes down to personal satisfaction. In a nutshell... If you are satisfied with your bike and it runs fine then use the flash but if you want a bike that performs correctly get the TTS. It's easy to use and learn.
If you haven't mated the SEST yet, sell it and get the TTS. Reason...each time you change your bike's configuration (mods) you can do the reconfiguration yourself so much easier with the TTS VTune than the SEST.
Canned maps, such as the so called stage 1 flash is not for your bike but for a close configuration. How close? I hear an average of 70% approximation or less. Yes, many run fine with canned maps but others want that extra 30% for the bike to run clean, with less heat and more TQ. You add cams or port your heads later then you have to pay for a Dyno guy to remap your bike. You just keep paying over and over.
We could spend all day beating this subject into the ground. There are hundreds of discussions on this exact point and it normally comes down to personal satisfaction. In a nutshell... If you are satisfied with your bike and it runs fine then use the flash but if you want a bike that performs correctly get the TTS. It's easy to use and learn.
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
I only paid $225 for my SEST and it will suit my needs just fine. My local dealer will load/tweak my stage 1 download for a very reasonable price. When I do my cams/etc, I'm only 120 miles away from Jamie for a custom tune. A canned map from my last V&H FuelPak was good enough for me. A little tweaking on the SEST will be more than adequate for my stage 1 set-up. Heck, at this point I have no plans to buy the software/Dongle cable...
btw, HD dealerships are the only ones able to use the HD digital technician. If you go to a dealership without your SERT, SEST or TTS they must use their digital technician to flash your ECM. The base cost from mother Harley is 150.00 to the dealership "so I've been told". This may not be accurate but if it is, anything over 150.00 is profit for the dealership. Profit is not a dirty word and each business must make a profit which is acceptable to everyone. What may be unacceptable is windfall profit, but that is another conversation for the political section.
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Road Master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 853
Likes: 5
From: Mnpls MN
Thank you for sharing this. Also, if the dealership has any charactor at all, they should only charge the person a maximum of 1 hour shop rate for the flash of the ECU if they did not install the stage I. If they did, the flash should be free. MY personal opinion.
There are a lot of people on this forum that say the ECU flash is a waste of $$, especially when the dealers charge $150. for it.
What you need is a judgement call. The bike will run without any mods to the EFI, but perhaps not as good as you would like and perhaps with exhaust pops. The story is the same for 08 through 10 bikes, the 09s came from the factory slightly richer. The ECU will adjust the closed loop but not the open loop portions (idle and WOT), or not enough. You will typically run a bit lean there.
If you want the thing to run spot on then don't waste your time with downloads or piggyback units. The current school of though is the TTS will get you there and, if you use sweat equity to save dyno time cost, your out of pocket is $400 to $500. I've seen numerous posts where a guy tunes his bike with TTS, takes it to a dyno tuner later only to be told that the bike was spot on, nothing more they could do. 95% there is a conservative estimate. A great tuner will alway be able to get more, however, but the rate of return on your investment won't be that great.
Several forum sponsors sell the TTS tuning kit. Any shop that does SERT or SEST can use TTS, except HD dealers for political reasons.
What you need is a judgement call. The bike will run without any mods to the EFI, but perhaps not as good as you would like and perhaps with exhaust pops. The story is the same for 08 through 10 bikes, the 09s came from the factory slightly richer. The ECU will adjust the closed loop but not the open loop portions (idle and WOT), or not enough. You will typically run a bit lean there.
If you want the thing to run spot on then don't waste your time with downloads or piggyback units. The current school of though is the TTS will get you there and, if you use sweat equity to save dyno time cost, your out of pocket is $400 to $500. I've seen numerous posts where a guy tunes his bike with TTS, takes it to a dyno tuner later only to be told that the bike was spot on, nothing more they could do. 95% there is a conservative estimate. A great tuner will alway be able to get more, however, but the rate of return on your investment won't be that great.
Several forum sponsors sell the TTS tuning kit. Any shop that does SERT or SEST can use TTS, except HD dealers for political reasons.
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
FYI
Producer... my dealership doesn't charge for flashing an ECM back to stock. They only charge for an upgraded flash because the mother ship can see each time a dealership uses the digital tech via internet and bills the dealership unless it is a stock flash. Again, this is "what I've been told" and may be total BS.
Producer... my dealership doesn't charge for flashing an ECM back to stock. They only charge for an upgraded flash because the mother ship can see each time a dealership uses the digital tech via internet and bills the dealership unless it is a stock flash. Again, this is "what I've been told" and may be total BS.