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Build sequence came up in another forum I'm on.
From what I gathered, there were 1983 Sportsters built in 1957.
Was told SN's started at 1000 so mine was 2392 off the line.
If 1983 were built and mine is 2392, I kinda scratchin my head on how that works.
Got me wondering how many have survived and where mine might be in the build sequence (i.e. #1200 of 1983 or?).
The Legend Begins, an official H-D publication, says for 1957 there were 1983 XLs and 418 XLAs. The book also says its production figures (1969-earlier) are not to be regarded as totally accurate but your XL being 3392 may be okay. XLAs had smaller engines than XLs but they were in the same engine family so the SNs were probably mixed together.
In the beginning, H-Ds had no SN. According to Herbert Wagner the earliest to receive them were 1907 models and over the next few years the start numbers varied for one reason or another. But apparently at some stage prior to 1920 the factory settled on start number 1000 for each engine family of general production machines and this then continued through 1956. But as of 1957 models the start number changed to 1001 and this is recorded on Harley Model Layout Sheets although the reason for the change is still unknown to me. It remained at 1001 for 1958-59. For 1960-69 models the even-odd code was used and the start number could be 2000, 2001, 1000 or 1001 depending on year.
Can you post a link to the other forum please so I can read the posts there. Thanks.
Eric
The Legend Begins, an official H-D publication, says for 1957 there were 1983 XLs and 418 XLAs. The book also says .............................................
Can you post a link to the other forum please so I can read the posts there. Thanks.
Eric
Thanks Eric,
The conversation was really more of Private messages between myself and a member of a FaceBook Group I'm in.
More in passing, he mentioned build numbers regarding his 57XL and it peaked my curiosity.
I sent him a Private message and it went from there. A few days went by where we didn't talk and I then posted the same question here.
He did contact me again today though.
Here is some of the conversation..
Me - I saw your post on the 57XL noting yours as build #13. How would I find out where mine is in the sequence?
They started with 57xl1000.. What is your number
**I sent him the pic of the SN **
So yours is the 2392nd bike off the line..
What do your belly number say.. The belly numbers are on the bottom of each case half...
Thanks. Will look for those numbers and report back.....
Just now able to get a pic of those numbers. Thanks again for your help. Ken
**Sent him the belly # pics **
Just checking back in. Did those bottom numbers help?
As I recall seeing, there were 1893 of these built. If mine was 2392 off the line, did they skip some numbers or ?
They started at 1000... So yours is the 1392 bike made
Sorry the 2392 bike off the line...
And yes.. They also made the 57xla on the same line... Around 500 of them made... So like i said yours was one of the last bikes made in 1957
The belly numbers are usually between 100 and 50 under the vin number.. Yours is about 200 over.. Which makes sense because of the late production number and the fact that the 57xla "military bike" was built at the end of the 57 production.. So your bike was made after they finished the military run of bikes and they had used up the cases in line for the xla bikes and then yours was made.. Probably a dealer ordered bike at the end of the 57 model year
... Yours are 100% real and correct....
Thanks so much for all the info. Heres the issue I ran into many moons ago
Saw these cracks and never got around to finding someone I could trust to repair them
** Sent him pics of radial cracks on the boss of the shift fork shaft inside the tranny.**
Easy fix for a good welder.. Are you in the states..?
XXXXX YYYY would be a good person...
Will contact XXXXX YYYY. Any other recommendations? Need a welder/machinist that could do a professional repair. Assume most metal inserts / needle bearing need to be replaced etc. Were coated with cosmo but see surface rust on them. Need to pull out cams,jugs, etc to check it all out. Been a while. Tks again My #2
Sent hi pics of my 61FL
Had a little back and forth about our bikes then discussed the Serial Number on my FL.
61FLH1001
If the belly numbers are correct on that 61 bottom end... Thats the first 1961 flh that rolled off the line...!
The vin number looks correct and not restamped..
Cool! They are good as far as I know. Didnt put that all together.
Starting in 1960 they went to the even/odd numbering system... 1960 started with 60xx2001 and 61 started with 61xx1001. And even years only started with even numbers and odd years with odd.. So 61flh1001-1999-3000-3999-5001 and so on
Thanks for the extra info. I dont think XLAs were necessarily built at the end of 1957 production. Some may have been, but I also have photos of some 57XLA SNs that are hundreds below 3000. And I have photos of several 57XL SNs that are over 3000.
Getting back to start numbers, the change from 1000 to 1001 occurred as of 1957 models as I mentioned above. Herb Wagner wrote about it in the winter 2009 issue of The Antique Motorcycle. He had also mentioned it on another forum in 2007 where he said the 1957 Model Layout Sheet states that motor numbers start with 1001. Herb did not know the reason for the change.
If your 61FLH SN is authentic then it is indeed the first 1961 Pan. I assume its 6 is a certain straight-back style? (It wasnt long though before that 6 changed to a round-back type. And the 1 in the year portion soon changed as well.)
For 1960s Big Twin SNs H-D used four different start numbers as laid out below.
1960: 2000
1961: 1001
1962: 2001
1963: 1000
1964: 2000
1965: 1001
1966: 2000
1967: 1000
1968: 2000
1969: 1000
Again the info is from Herb Wagner and he posted it on the AMCA forum in 2016. Herb said Sportster SNs ran in similar fashion. We do not know why H-D used four different start numbers over that period.
Eric
If your 61FLH SN is authentic then it is indeed the first 1961 Pan. I assume its 6 is a certain straight-back style? (It wasnt long though before that 6 changed to a round-back type. And the 1 in the year portion soon changed as well.) ........
Eric
Thanks again Eric,
I enjoy learning this type of info.
This may help with the FL my serial number.
Ken
You're welcome. Thats a nice bike. I cant see anything wrong with the SN. All characters appear normal factory styles for very early 61 and obviously the sequence portion complies with the 1960-69 even-odd code.
Straight-back 6 looks good.
Notice the 1s have their top serif at about forty-five degrees and it is slightly curved. Notice the bottom serif is fairly long/wide.
F, L and H are all sans serif as expected. Notice the lower horizontal stroke of the F is almost as long as the upper stroke.
Notice the 0s are oblong in shape as opposed to rounded.
As I mentioned above, it wasnt long though before that 6 changed to a round-back type. And the 1 in the year portion soon changed as well. Heres an example.
In my photo the first two characters may have been done with a tandem stamp. Also notice the serifs on the year 1 are shorter than the serifs on the sequence 1.
Just out of curiosity, do your Panhead belly numbers begin with 160-? As you may be aware, it was often normal for engines with a low SN to have belly numbers from the previous year.
And I imagine your engine has Hs stamped on top of each case near the rear mounting bolts?
Eric
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57-XL Build sequence
