LiveWire Livewire VS Zero SRF Comparison
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Grand HDF Member
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From: Virginia
Livewire VS Zero SRF Comparison
From the LA Times.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-13/harley-davidson-zero-electric-motorcycles
From the Article:
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-13/harley-davidson-zero-electric-motorcycles
From the Article:
As a result, going in, I thought the choice would be obvious. The Zero machine is lighter, quicker, faster, offers greater range and is cheaper a lot cheaper. The LiveWire starts at $29,799, and the Zero at $19,495.
But guess what? In many ways, I preferred the LiveWire to the SR/F.
But guess what? In many ways, I preferred the LiveWire to the SR/F.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
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From: Virginia
Try this one, although it says I've reached my one article a month limit.
https://www.latimes.com/gallery/harl...r-2020-gallery
https://www.latimes.com/gallery/harl...r-2020-gallery
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
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From: Texas
As a result, going in, I thought the choice would be obvious. The Zero machine is lighter, quicker, faster, offers greater range and is cheaper — a lot cheaper. The LiveWire starts at $29,799, and the Zero at $19,495.
But guess what? In many ways, I preferred the LiveWire to the SR/F.
But guess what? In many ways, I preferred the LiveWire to the SR/F.
For those who shop solely by looking at spec sheets and price tags, the Zero offers more. But that's the same story with every manufacturer out there, and yet Harley still manages to sell as many bikes as every other manufacturer combined (601cc+). Even if Harley only sells a thousand LiveWires in its first year, that'll probably give them around a 50% market share in premium big street electric motorcycles.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2016
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From: San Diego
Pretty much what I expected from that article. Also I think they give the Zero a fair assessment. Definitely not perfect and honestly I expected a bit more in fit and finish for the price tag.
heard from a lot of different people that the Harley FEELS like an expensive bike. That the fit and finish is just on point.
just wish Harley would have incorporated level 2 charging and more freeway specific range (very hard for every manufacturer). If they had I would have been a buyer for sure. Even at that price.
hoping to test ride a Livewire soon and really hoping they put out a bike with better range and level 2 (as well as DC) soon.
heard from a lot of different people that the Harley FEELS like an expensive bike. That the fit and finish is just on point.
just wish Harley would have incorporated level 2 charging and more freeway specific range (very hard for every manufacturer). If they had I would have been a buyer for sure. Even at that price.
hoping to test ride a Livewire soon and really hoping they put out a bike with better range and level 2 (as well as DC) soon.
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From: Texas
I will go so far as to say that I would bet, heavily, that that decision was political. A way to force well-heeled LiveWire buyers to spend more time (and money) in Harley dealerships. i.e., "if you want fast charging, you have to go to the dealer, but you want to anyway because it's free."
I will almost guarantee you that the engineers built that bike to support Level II charging, and that a simple software update can unlock that functionality. And that for whatever reason, they made a conscious decision to restrict it. Who knows, maybe it was part of negotiations with the dealers, maybe the dealers demanded it before they agreed to fund Level III chargers at their dealerships.
That may work for a "Halo" product that moves low quantities to a select level of rich buyers, but there's no way that type of control will work with a mass market product.
So I will make a prediction: when Harley introduces the middleweight (mass market) electric bike, they will simultaneously put out a firmware update for the LiveWire that unlocks Level II charging. I (almost) guarantee it.
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Grand HDF Member
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From: Virginia
me too. I think everyone on Earth was flabbergasted at the lack of Level II charging. That is an incomprehensible and egregious error.
I will go so far as to say that I would bet, heavily, that that decision was political. A way to force well-heeled LiveWire buyers to spend more time (and money) in Harley dealerships. i.e., "if you want fast charging, you have to go to the dealer, but you want to anyway because it's free."
I will almost guarantee you that the engineers built that bike to support Level II charging, and that a simple software update can unlock that functionality. And that for whatever reason, they made a conscious decision to restrict it. Who knows, maybe it was part of negotiations with the dealers, maybe the dealers demanded it before they agreed to fund Level III chargers at their dealerships.
That may work for a "Halo" product that moves low quantities to a select level of rich buyers, but there's no way that type of control will work with a mass market product.
So I will make a prediction: when Harley introduces the middleweight (mass market) electric bike, they will simultaneously put out a firmware update for the LiveWire that unlocks Level II charging. I (almost) guarantee it.
I will go so far as to say that I would bet, heavily, that that decision was political. A way to force well-heeled LiveWire buyers to spend more time (and money) in Harley dealerships. i.e., "if you want fast charging, you have to go to the dealer, but you want to anyway because it's free."
I will almost guarantee you that the engineers built that bike to support Level II charging, and that a simple software update can unlock that functionality. And that for whatever reason, they made a conscious decision to restrict it. Who knows, maybe it was part of negotiations with the dealers, maybe the dealers demanded it before they agreed to fund Level III chargers at their dealerships.
That may work for a "Halo" product that moves low quantities to a select level of rich buyers, but there's no way that type of control will work with a mass market product.
So I will make a prediction: when Harley introduces the middleweight (mass market) electric bike, they will simultaneously put out a firmware update for the LiveWire that unlocks Level II charging. I (almost) guarantee it.
I hadn't thought about the dealers demanding it to force customers into the dealerships quick chargers. That is a possibility.
I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again. I went to the Livewire demo day in King of Prussia, PA. There was a man there that identified himself as a Livewire engineer. When I complained about the lack of true Level II charging he said something to the effect of "I can't say anything, but expect an announcement on that subject soon." IIRC that was back in late August. So I don't know what soon means.
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Grand HDF Member
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From: Texas
If it was a play to accommodate the dealers (who, let's be fair, were being asked to spend $50k or $100k to put in those charging stations) then I would imagine there was a time limit associated with it, maybe 1 year, maybe 2. I don't see them in any rush to relax that policy unless it seriously impedes sales. But I would be shocked beyond belief if they tried that crap on the mass market bikes.
Seasoned HDF Member
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From: North Dakota
There's your first 'soon to be announced' stage one kit for the Livewire - a Level 2 charge 'enhancement'.
Shouldn't cost more than $1000 bucks.
Harley has made a fortune producing gas bikes that need enhancing as soon as you buy them, they're not going to give that up on the electrics...
Shouldn't cost more than $1000 bucks.
Harley has made a fortune producing gas bikes that need enhancing as soon as you buy them, they're not going to give that up on the electrics...