SE Tuner & PowerVision required for Stage 2??
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
Likes: 2,252
From: wet coast BC
what I said so far is the PV is used to create the map. That works. It is transferring that info to a street map, then flashing it with street tuner, remains the mystery. I stand to be corrected if the street will flash a map outside the specs, that would make the program hacked IMO
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,739
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From: Fayetteville, NC
I sure have heard of that. I'm in NC and there is a nearby dealer who does that very thing. They tune with the SE Tuner and then do a much better tune on top of that with the PV. You don't even have to buy the PV, they keep it! You just buy the license. They claim they do that so that other dealers would see the SE tune if they need to do work..........and they swear that the PV can't be seen. I just saw BVBOB's post ........that's exactly what they are doing...what he said.
Here is something else.....I had a HD tuner show me how they can't see the PV tune. He had a laptop hooked up to the bike and he said they could only see the PV tune if they had a PV to hook up to it. NOW......before I get flamed!!!!!! I didn't know what I was looking at on that laptop......but he sure was scrolling and showing me what they actually see when they hook up to a tuned bike. The reason why he showed me this is because I actually asked him about that other dealer's plan (I didn't give him the dealership info)........and he said, "come here and let me show you why they are doing it" ............again, I have no clue. The forum says one thing, but I've found some tuners that said otherwise.
Here is something else.....I had a HD tuner show me how they can't see the PV tune. He had a laptop hooked up to the bike and he said they could only see the PV tune if they had a PV to hook up to it. NOW......before I get flamed!!!!!! I didn't know what I was looking at on that laptop......but he sure was scrolling and showing me what they actually see when they hook up to a tuned bike. The reason why he showed me this is because I actually asked him about that other dealer's plan (I didn't give him the dealership info)........and he said, "come here and let me show you why they are doing it" ............again, I have no clue. The forum says one thing, but I've found some tuners that said otherwise.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
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From: wet coast BC
OK, I accept your explanation. since both tuners require a dongle to be used to flash to the ecm I am still unsure why the PV signature is not recorded on the ecm. IF the street map can be read by PV, copy paste the PV tune and then flash using the street tuner, then it all makes sense only the street signature is seen on the ecm as the last flash.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2017
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From: High Point, NC.
Regardless of what they're doing or why or what the DT can see....
I would think that all the MOCO has to do is see that a certain table is outside the specs set forth by the limitations of what the SEPT can do. For example, if the AF table is outside the parameters of what the SEPT can do, you would know immediately that some other tuner did this adjustment, right??
I would think that all the MOCO has to do is see that a certain table is outside the specs set forth by the limitations of what the SEPT can do. For example, if the AF table is outside the parameters of what the SEPT can do, you would know immediately that some other tuner did this adjustment, right??
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 153
From: Fayetteville, NC
Regardless of what they're doing or why or what the DT can see....
I would think that all the MOCO has to do is see that a certain table is outside the specs set forth by the limitations of what the SEPT can do. For example, if the AF table is outside the parameters of what the SEPT can do, you would know immediately that some other tuner did this adjustment, right??
I would think that all the MOCO has to do is see that a certain table is outside the specs set forth by the limitations of what the SEPT can do. For example, if the AF table is outside the parameters of what the SEPT can do, you would know immediately that some other tuner did this adjustment, right??
I can't pretend to be smart on this stuff bro. I wish I had an educated answer. All I know is they said when they hook up their computer, all they can see are the tables set by the SE Tuner.....so as far as they see, all you have is the SE Tuner. They can't see the tables, etc set forth by the PV. I can't pretend to believe that......nor disbelieve it. I know the forum says one thing, but a number of local dealers say differently. The guy showed me the computer hooked up to a customer's bike......if I knew what I was looking at, I could have asked the hard questions. I'll just stick with the SE tuner.......and when I want to jump ship, it'll be 100% 2 feet in with the PV and not worry about it.
OK, I accept your explanation. since both tuners require a dongle to be used to flash to the ecm I am still unsure why the PV signature is not recorded on the ecm. IF the street map can be read by PV, copy paste the PV tune and then flash using the street tuner, then it all makes sense only the street signature is seen on the ecm as the last flash.
IMO dealers that are trying to skirt around the warranty by doing things like this are walking on a fine line. If they want to modify bikes that would void the warranty, they should own their decisions and not try to play games. Same for the end user. I have customers with M8s that want m to do work, I explain what the work could potentially do to the warranty, some are good with it and decide to go ahead with the work, some decide it's not worth it and hold off or go the HD compliant route. I personally wont take part in voiding a persons warranty without them knowing ahead of time. I don't get all the trying to get around it. HD and the EPA are setting the rules, either play by them or accept the potential consequences.
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
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From: wet coast BC
PV is unique in it has the ability to pull any MAP (other than a TTS MAP) out of the ECM and then modify that MAP and send it back to the ECM. The ECM recognizes it as the MAP that was pulled of the ECM originally. IN this case they would flash the ECM with the Street Tuner, pull the Street Tuner MAP off of the ECM with the PV, edit (tune) it then send it back into the ECM. It basically just keepe the calibration ID of the Street Tuner MAP. Weather or not they (MoCo) has the ability to tell weather the Street Tuner MAP has been modified is up for debate. I would imagine it depends on how deep they are looking into the calibration on the bike when it comes in for warranty. If they are just checking the calibration ID I highly doubt they would catch it.
IMO dealers that are trying to skirt around the warranty by doing things like this are walking on a fine line. If they want to modify bikes that would void the warranty, they should own their decisions and not try to play games. Same for the end user. I have customers with M8s that want m to do work, I explain what the work could potentially do to the warranty, some are good with it and decide to go ahead with the work, some decide it's not worth it and hold off or go the HD compliant route. I personally wont take part in voiding a persons warranty without them knowing ahead of time. I don't get all the trying to get around it. HD and the EPA are setting the rules, either play by them or accept the potential consequences.
IMO dealers that are trying to skirt around the warranty by doing things like this are walking on a fine line. If they want to modify bikes that would void the warranty, they should own their decisions and not try to play games. Same for the end user. I have customers with M8s that want m to do work, I explain what the work could potentially do to the warranty, some are good with it and decide to go ahead with the work, some decide it's not worth it and hold off or go the HD compliant route. I personally wont take part in voiding a persons warranty without them knowing ahead of time. I don't get all the trying to get around it. HD and the EPA are setting the rules, either play by them or accept the potential consequences.
How does the modified map get flashed back in without a PV ID tag? Is the street tuner able to flash a modified map that it otherwise could not create with that street tuner software.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,268
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From: Westchester, NY
I have the same questions... also if this is really a "solution," is this something I could do myself? This is more for personal knowledge than anything, my warranty is basically already void as far as I'm concerned.