uest
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From: bellerive , MO
uest
I spent several hours reading threads about engine oils that addressed comparisons between higher priced "synthetic" engine oils (Mobil 1, Schaeffer, HD Syn 3, RedLine, AmsOil, Valvoline, etc.) and percieve much of the oil user's comments are valid however they were mostly based upon real-world use/experience (mostly favorable experiences) and occasionally based upon favorable experience backed up by actual lab analysis of either "virgin" oil samples tested or used oil samples taken at change time.
I learned and experienced a bit learning from many years of maintenance management with US Military gas & diesel oil analysis and Military helicopter turbine engine & gearcase oil samples and hydraulic system oil that was sampled and analyzed and the results linked to the maintenance/historical records of the vehicle/generator/helicopter/gearcase/etc. These test results were also used to intervene in forecast engine or power component "change-out" times if a periodic oil lab sample showed dangerous levels of wear for bearings/races/gears, etc, or high unburned fuel present in the oil.
For my own academic interest I began sampling the sengine oil of my cars since 1997 and then my motorcycle (HD XL1200c). I have always used Blackstone-Labs (https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ ) of Fort Wayne Indiana and they have been helpful, educational, and have provided several "virgin" oil sample reports over time at no cost when I began using a new oil product or considered such a change. A lab anlaysis provides a lot of useful data to include pour point temps, Total Base Number (TBN), evaporation temps, viscosity, soluables in ppm, unburned fuel, silicone, and other values however it does NOT discolose if the oil is "full systhetic", synthetic blend, super-hydro-cracked mineral oil instead of ester based distilled base stock, or from whom which oil company it is derived (if packaged under a name such as NAPA, or CarQuest or Harley Davidson, etc.).
The evaporative temp value is very good to know in selecting a motorcycle oil because engines with "piston cooling oil jets" to squirt engine oil under pressure at the underside of the piston have their oil subjected to the extremely hot area of the piston(s) throughout the 4 cycles, especially during the cumbustion period when the piston reaches it's hottest temp and evaporation is highly likely for oils with relatively lower avaporation temps (the synthetic oils usually have higher evaporative temps compared to non-synthetics). It is also very important to know if the viscosity of your used engine oil, as evaluated in a lab analysis of about 4 ounces of your used oil taken at oil change time, has "broken down" under the type of operating conditions to which your engine and it's engine oil was subjected during the "oil change cycle/duration" you used.
You will likely find over time that synthetic oils advertised as "long life" have substantial detergent additive packages evidenced by higher TBN values and that thy really do keep the engine very cean inside.
And, to really challenge an engine oil such that you really
DO need the very best or nearly very best, you would be subjecting the vehicle to EXTREME conditions such as making your pickup truck pull a heavily loaded travel trailer day after day in summer desert temps at high speed and repeatedly UP steep mountain grades (4-8%) at full throttle- so most of us don't subject our road-licensed-insured air-cooled motorcycle engines to SEVERE EXTREME service constantly( coparable to my example of your pickup truck towing the travel trailer).
So, you have many oils from which to select, nearly all are very good and will lubricate/cool/clean your engine very well and NOT damage your wet clutch, and you probably cannot make a bad desicion as long as you use the correct viscosity, use a quality oil filter, and change out the oil & filter at reasonable/recommended intervals or if engine oil contamination is suspected. You may even find that made-in-the-lab PAO based "full synthetic" base stock engine oils are more co$tly to buy than very high quality super-hydro-cracked mineral oil base stock oils and that is "isn't worth it" to pay more per quart for some applications (your daily driver "beater" car/truck, your riding lawnmower, your gas powered portable electric generator, your x-spouses new Accura SUV, of other non-motorcycle machines).
So, the cost for lab analysis runs about $25 per sample (additional $10 if you want a TBN test included) plus postage of about $2.25 to mail in the oil sample via US Postal Servce.
I iniitially ran H-D Syn 3 in my 1200 sportster after "break-in" on H-D mineral oil and changed to Mobil 1 20w-50 based upon lab testing of virgin samples of both Syn 3 and Mobil 1 and comparison of the TBN and evaporative temp values.
So, lab testing really validates what you are buying and using and how it is working in your aplication - and it either reinforces or refutes what the oil producer states in their marketing campaigns and flashy literature and website self-endorsements ! It cost more initially than comparing how much iron filiings are on the magnetic drain plug, however it tells you a lot more . Thanks, Ralph in St Louis, MO
I learned and experienced a bit learning from many years of maintenance management with US Military gas & diesel oil analysis and Military helicopter turbine engine & gearcase oil samples and hydraulic system oil that was sampled and analyzed and the results linked to the maintenance/historical records of the vehicle/generator/helicopter/gearcase/etc. These test results were also used to intervene in forecast engine or power component "change-out" times if a periodic oil lab sample showed dangerous levels of wear for bearings/races/gears, etc, or high unburned fuel present in the oil.
For my own academic interest I began sampling the sengine oil of my cars since 1997 and then my motorcycle (HD XL1200c). I have always used Blackstone-Labs (https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ ) of Fort Wayne Indiana and they have been helpful, educational, and have provided several "virgin" oil sample reports over time at no cost when I began using a new oil product or considered such a change. A lab anlaysis provides a lot of useful data to include pour point temps, Total Base Number (TBN), evaporation temps, viscosity, soluables in ppm, unburned fuel, silicone, and other values however it does NOT discolose if the oil is "full systhetic", synthetic blend, super-hydro-cracked mineral oil instead of ester based distilled base stock, or from whom which oil company it is derived (if packaged under a name such as NAPA, or CarQuest or Harley Davidson, etc.).
The evaporative temp value is very good to know in selecting a motorcycle oil because engines with "piston cooling oil jets" to squirt engine oil under pressure at the underside of the piston have their oil subjected to the extremely hot area of the piston(s) throughout the 4 cycles, especially during the cumbustion period when the piston reaches it's hottest temp and evaporation is highly likely for oils with relatively lower avaporation temps (the synthetic oils usually have higher evaporative temps compared to non-synthetics). It is also very important to know if the viscosity of your used engine oil, as evaluated in a lab analysis of about 4 ounces of your used oil taken at oil change time, has "broken down" under the type of operating conditions to which your engine and it's engine oil was subjected during the "oil change cycle/duration" you used.
You will likely find over time that synthetic oils advertised as "long life" have substantial detergent additive packages evidenced by higher TBN values and that thy really do keep the engine very cean inside.
And, to really challenge an engine oil such that you really
DO need the very best or nearly very best, you would be subjecting the vehicle to EXTREME conditions such as making your pickup truck pull a heavily loaded travel trailer day after day in summer desert temps at high speed and repeatedly UP steep mountain grades (4-8%) at full throttle- so most of us don't subject our road-licensed-insured air-cooled motorcycle engines to SEVERE EXTREME service constantly( coparable to my example of your pickup truck towing the travel trailer).
So, you have many oils from which to select, nearly all are very good and will lubricate/cool/clean your engine very well and NOT damage your wet clutch, and you probably cannot make a bad desicion as long as you use the correct viscosity, use a quality oil filter, and change out the oil & filter at reasonable/recommended intervals or if engine oil contamination is suspected. You may even find that made-in-the-lab PAO based "full synthetic" base stock engine oils are more co$tly to buy than very high quality super-hydro-cracked mineral oil base stock oils and that is "isn't worth it" to pay more per quart for some applications (your daily driver "beater" car/truck, your riding lawnmower, your gas powered portable electric generator, your x-spouses new Accura SUV, of other non-motorcycle machines).
So, the cost for lab analysis runs about $25 per sample (additional $10 if you want a TBN test included) plus postage of about $2.25 to mail in the oil sample via US Postal Servce.
I iniitially ran H-D Syn 3 in my 1200 sportster after "break-in" on H-D mineral oil and changed to Mobil 1 20w-50 based upon lab testing of virgin samples of both Syn 3 and Mobil 1 and comparison of the TBN and evaporative temp values.
So, lab testing really validates what you are buying and using and how it is working in your aplication - and it either reinforces or refutes what the oil producer states in their marketing campaigns and flashy literature and website self-endorsements ! It cost more initially than comparing how much iron filiings are on the magnetic drain plug, however it tells you a lot more . Thanks, Ralph in St Louis, MO
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From: State of Confusion
So, you have many oils from which to select, nearly all are very good and will lubricate/cool/clean your engine very well and NOT damage your wet clutch, and you probably cannot make a bad desicion as long as you use the correct viscosity, use a quality oil filter, and change out the oil & filter at reasonable/recommended intervals or if engine oil contamination is suspected.
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