Yes it will be… And that was my experience with my GS 1150 compared to my Electraglide … But, if I was on an ADV I would be wearing different clothes, like my Klim jacket & pants and a full coverage helmet… So I would be protected more because of that…

when I tour, I tour heavy… And I find that my Electraglide weighs out at about 100 pounds more than my GS did… One of the big differences is that the GS was much more top-heavy, which made it much more of a chore in slow traffic, Especially because I could not put my feet flat on the ground... another big difference between the two was the side stands… The side stand on the GS was crap… And I had to be very careful where I stopped to make sure that I didn’t have too much angle to my left… Or I might not actually even be able to right the bike again once I wanted to get going… I experienced that in Idaho coming off of the top of rattlesnake pass… I wanted to take a picture, and all of the pull outs there are gravel… But the angle of the parking made it very difficult to get it back up once I have stopped… When I went down on my Harley I didn’t have the same problem… Because the side stand was better and the bike was lower... Tippy toe, very loose gravel, and bad angles do not make for a happy stop to take a picture.

Another big difference between the GS and the Harley was the clutch lever… With the GS to shift the bike I had to fully disengage the clutch lever… With my Electraglide all I have to do is break torque…

at speed, on the highway, there was virtually no difference between the two motorcycles… Both would go 100 mph quite nicely… The difference, for me, was very slow speed bumper-to-bumper traffic, and in Loose gravel in off camber pull outs… Of course, I took the GS into places I never would even have considered taking my Electraglide.

I would not consider buying the PanAm unless I can ATGATT up and take it for a decent test ride.

 

Dan D. "Make no mistake though, this bike fully loaded and with a passenger isn't going to ride like a large displacement touring bike. It will feel weak in comparison.

Properly weighted and with the right suspension (tuned for the rider or trip) will be pretty sweet though.


My guess is the suspension will be the Achilles heel on this bike initially... Either because it won't work properly, or will be made for the typical 180lb rider."



Can you explain your above comment? Seems to me you drifted a bit from power to suspension.
How will the PA feel week in comparison? This bike weighs quite a bit less than a big HD touring rig; the weight difference alone is close to 50 h.p. (6hp per lb) & the PA has 150hp & 94 ft lb. It will feel much better than a big touring rig.

Are speaking of suspension? We have no idea what the PA suspension is like yet so how can we say?

Enlighten me please

 

They aren't slitting their own throats if someone who normally would have bought an ultra limited suddenly buys a PA. They are just shifting the profits from one type of bike to another.

IF that some person had bought a BMW, KTM, Triumph or other brand adventure bike instead of the Harley they would be losing out. So Harley opens up a new market getting some of BMW, KTM, Triumph, Honda, ect... sales and keeps some of their own brand loyalists that want a smaller lighter bike for touring.

 

Who wants to bet how long it'll be before someone jerry-rigs a batwing onto the front of a PA?

 

I’m more interested in who will be the first one to put some progressive lowering shocks or airbags and swap out all the parts for chrome lol. One thing is certain, Harley is about to introduce the adventure world to customization the likes the world has never seen. Can anyone say big wheel pan am?

 

I want a Stage 2 kit already! It's not going to be as simple to hop up this motor, but HD has already said encouraging things about easily installed cams and more displacement.

A 1400cc big bore kit and a Stage 2 cam would be awesome.

 

The PA won't feel weak by comparison, that's just ridiculous. It's 250 pounds lighter, has an order of magnitude more horsepower, and has (apparently) a plateau of torque that peaks at 94 ft-lbs, which is more than a stock M8 makes at peak.

The suspension looks to be just fine, but that's just supposition at this point. We don't have anything more than a few guarded statements from people who have ridden the bike, but all those carefully couched statements are overwhelmingly positive.

Statements such as the one you're questioning are primarily from people who simply can't accept that if Harley pulls off what it appears they have, they've instantly made the GS Adventure an also-ran.


As mentioned, the only real downside to this sort of bike is the lack of weather/wind protection. Due to the height, you'll get blown around more. And the days of staying relatively dry behind the fairing are gone. An ADV bike helps you appreciate good gear.

 

My 130hp Road Glide is already a hoot to ride. The PA should be a rocket right off the floor. Getting some goodies on there should make it downright frightening.

 

I know what you're saying, but I do have to admit I am leaning towards thinking the 150hp will be enough for day 1. 150 hp in a 750-lb bike+rider is a power-to-weight ratio of 5:1. That compares to my Stage II Fat Bob at 9:1. Should be pretty darn zippy. Especially when you consider a stock Ultra+rider = about 14:1.

Actually, the Pan Am at 150 hp isn't that far off the supercharged Ninja H2 SX. When that came out I checked it out, I think it was about 175 hp in a 560-lb bike, so ... faster, yes, but not hugely different, that'd be a bike+rider ratio of about 4.3:1 vs the Pan Am's 5:1.

Harley's already stated that the Pan Am can run stable and smooth at 135 mph all day long. My Fat Bob won't even reach above 125 (or so I've been told...). The stock tires are the Michelin Scorcher Adventures, which are rated with a V speed index, which supports up to 149 mph, so... they must be serious, right?

So I'm thinking I'll leave it stock. Of course, give me a month and I'll be right there with you, scouring the net for big bore kits...

I know one thing, I'm not interested in a loud pipe for it. Just MHO, but blaring around the woods with a screaming loud fart cannon is just a really douchey kind of thing to do. For a street bike, whatever floats your boat, but if it's going in nature, I think a quieter muffler and a proper spark arrestor are the right things to do.

 

I generally agree with everything you're saying, but I figure I should point out that Harley claims 122 ft/lbs for the Ultra's stock 114ci engine. Since Harley is claiming 122 ft/lbs for the 114 M8, and 94 for the Pan Am, I don't see how we can say that the Pan Am would have more than the M8.

On a per-pound basis, yes the Pan Am is going to have more ft/lbs per pound of bike+rider, so the net effect will be better roll-on performance on the Pan Am. But in pure engine twisting force terms, the M8 puts out more torque.