I'm looking at buying a panhead motor that is stamped as a 1947. Is this possible?? Were there any panhead motors actually stamped in 1947 or am I looking at a panhead top on a knucklehead bottom?

 

Panheads came out in 1948, no such thing as a '47 Pan. If it is in front of you, post pics many here will have solid opinions. But likely Knuck cases and Pan top end or possibly stolen with creative stampings. Pics help.

Welcome, go do a new member introduction.

 

Here are pictures of the stamps on the cases.

 

I am not the expert on this site for VIN#'s, but I think that is a restamp. My research tells me the 6 should have a straight back and the 7 should have a down slash at the left top of the 7. 4 should have a cross line at the bottom. Again, per my research and comparison to my known good 1946 VIN#. Add to that the pad looks too smooth, not cast like the rest of the case.

Belly number looks more believable.

 

Agreed, the pad has been filed down making the transition from the pad to the front of the engine case too sharp. Here's my 46 which should look the same.

 

The belly numbers could be real so they took advantage and put a knuckle vin on it. My 59 legit cases have a 58 belly number.

 

Run from even thinking about the purchase. VIN plate has been ground on and the numbers suck as well

 

Welcome to the forum. Some Panhead motors were stamped in 1947 but they received 1948 SNs because they were 1948 models.

I can’t tell if the R-H case is H-D or not. If H-D it may be somewhere from 1948 to 1957 inclusive.
Left case appears to be H-D Panhead. Maybe 1948–early-52.

I’ve seen several Pan cases with 47 SNs but they were all obvious fakes and so is that one. But even if the left case was 47 the SN has problems. That type of 4 is often called an open-back 4 and you’ll notice it is sans serif. But the 4 I would expect would have an open top and a serif across the base.
The 7s are sans serif but I would expect a vertical serif at top left and a different type of back.
On the F the lower horizontal stroke looks too long for 47.
The 5 is not the usual style.
The 6 has a round back when normally it would have a straight back.
There were two types of 1 for 1947 SNs but that 1 is neither of them. And again the left case isn’t 47 but instead may be 1948–early-52 Panhead.

Here’s a photo of a 47 Knuckle SN for comparison of that area of the case and for comparison of some characters.





Hard to read the entire BNs but they appear to begin with 147? If so the 1 may have been meant to be a code number but that would be a problem because code numbers for BNs didn’t begin until 1948 models. Code numbers for BNs were not used for 1947.
Another problem with those BNs is that they do not face the usual way. Here’s a photo of 1947 BNs on Knuckle cases. Notice no code number before the 47 and notice which way the BNs face. Also notice the outer edges of these cases are rounded and that was normal for 47. Compare these edges with the outer edges of the cases in your photo.






Just out of curiosity, is the sequence portion of those alleged BNs 5761 or 5701? Can you post a clearer photo please. Thanks.
Eric

 

Given the concerns of the above experienced people that the number is suspicious--and as a former prosecutor--you're also facing a separate possibility and related question: was the seller an innocent, good faith purchaser for value of the engine?

If the seller was an innocent purchaser for value in good faith and ifthere is no way to determine with an obliterated original number whether the engine was stolen, then the question becomes do you want a non-authentic engine number--which would dramatically reduce the value of the cases to a collector--and the sloppy repair job on the engine mounts, which might indicate a crash or a bazillion stress cycles that may have weakened the castings throughout?

If the answer to question no. 2 is "I'm not a collector, I just want the engine," then you could tell the owner you're concerned about the engine number's authenticity, and you'd like to do the transaction after an inspection at the state police office. Most state police departments offer a free vehicle (here, engine) inspection and check of the MVD, FBI, and NICB data bases for reported thefts. Just tell them about your concerns and say you want them to check all data bases to eliminate the possibility it was reported stolen.

If the title (if the PO has one) and engine numbers come back clear--and you do the state PD check before completing the transaction--you cannot be charged with receiving stolen property, because that requires men rea (the 'guilty mind' element of the crime), which you'd have eliminated by presenting it to the authorities with the express concerns raised above. Worst case scenario is they seize the thing--but that's the PO's problem because he's the one holding it out as his property. If it checks out clear and you're not a collector, you could use the fake number as a bargaining lever--and potentially a big one.

However, if the guy won't go with you to take the engine to the authorities to have it checked, then I'm with Panz, et al. Don't chance it--and don't reward the likely culprit. In fact, some would say you should report your concerns in that event--assuming he doesn't have a valid title to the engine.