Points Timing
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Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 653
From: Potter County, PA
Points Timing
I have a 1984 FXEF Fat Bob Superglide that the Ultima 53-644 Igntion recently decided to die after 16 years. The bike originally had factory full electronic ignition which dies in probably 2013 and then I switched to Points. I never had issues with the Points but decided to go with no advance weights and the Ultima 53-644.
Since the Ultima crapped out, I switched back to Points. I had the O.E.M. breaker plate and that was about it. I put the J&P needle bearing Advance unit in plus a new set of Car Quest brand Points and condenser (Chevy). The Breaker Plate is almost at the end of the slots clockwise (advanced) to be in Time. I have static timed it in retard and advance conditions and put a Timing light on it as well. Sometimes I can see the timing marks dynamically and sometimes not due to oil slinging, but it appears to be Timed dynamically as well but I am not 100% sure (confident) of that. And I don't know which exact RPM the marks come into view, but they are definitely there @ 2000 RPM's via the bike tach; I don't have a one or two cylinder tach on my meter.
The bike runs great and kick starts easy just as it is. If I retard it maybe 1/8" in the slot, it runs bad and won't kick start. It has been darn cold so I can't tell if it is running advanced and hot. The plugs look great.
Two questions, #1. Are bikes easier to kick start if advanced too much or retarder too much? I remember my 1967 XLCH, straight kick magneto model, had to have the Magneto fully retarded to start and then full advanced to run. This was the old days, back in the 70's.
#2. Is it normal or should I say common to use up nearly all of the slot adjustment for proper Timing?
Since the Ultima crapped out, I switched back to Points. I had the O.E.M. breaker plate and that was about it. I put the J&P needle bearing Advance unit in plus a new set of Car Quest brand Points and condenser (Chevy). The Breaker Plate is almost at the end of the slots clockwise (advanced) to be in Time. I have static timed it in retard and advance conditions and put a Timing light on it as well. Sometimes I can see the timing marks dynamically and sometimes not due to oil slinging, but it appears to be Timed dynamically as well but I am not 100% sure (confident) of that. And I don't know which exact RPM the marks come into view, but they are definitely there @ 2000 RPM's via the bike tach; I don't have a one or two cylinder tach on my meter.
The bike runs great and kick starts easy just as it is. If I retard it maybe 1/8" in the slot, it runs bad and won't kick start. It has been darn cold so I can't tell if it is running advanced and hot. The plugs look great.
Two questions, #1. Are bikes easier to kick start if advanced too much or retarder too much? I remember my 1967 XLCH, straight kick magneto model, had to have the Magneto fully retarded to start and then full advanced to run. This was the old days, back in the 70's.
#2. Is it normal or should I say common to use up nearly all of the slot adjustment for proper Timing?
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Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 653
From: Potter County, PA
I hate China stuff! They just don't care. Oh well at least I probably know why it has to be turned to near the limit of Advance to be properly Timed. O.E.M. Advance Weights are a scarce item. Thanks.
So a bike is easier to kickstart if properly Timed or retarded a bit and harder if Advanced beyond spec? I know they will run like heck if Advanced a bit, but not conducive to long engine life.
So a bike is easier to kickstart if properly Timed or retarded a bit and harder if Advanced beyond spec? I know they will run like heck if Advanced a bit, but not conducive to long engine life.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,565
Likes: 3,318
From: Cental, MI
Only If you are so advanced that it causes Pre-ignition...otherwise??? What can it Hurt?? Been doin it for many years.. I set all my adjustments for each individual machine... Why I laugh when people ask me what jets I run... May as well ask me where I'm Timed at... Ain't gonna work for you except for miracles!!!
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Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 653
From: Potter County, PA
Well all good to hear. I know that the farm tractor characteristics of Harley Shovelheads let them run when waaaay out of time. I think it may have been this very bike, a very long time ago, when I first bought it, that had zero top end power climbing the mountains around here, 45 mph tops. It ended up that it was jetted so lean with the timing retarded so far back to avoid over-heating. I got it timed right and then got the jetting right and it was a very powerful machine.
I will say this: This bike really appears to run a heck of a lot better on Points than it did with the Ultima Single Fire. No coughing; warms up quicker, and starts - kick and electric much easier, and it is cold here now!
I will say this: This bike really appears to run a heck of a lot better on Points than it did with the Ultima Single Fire. No coughing; warms up quicker, and starts - kick and electric much easier, and it is cold here now!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,565
Likes: 3,318
From: Cental, MI
Well all good to hear. I know that the farm tractor characteristics of Harley Shovelheads let them run when waaaay out of time. I think it may have been this very bike, a very long time ago, when I first bought it, that had zero top end power climbing the mountains around here, 45 mph tops. It ended up that it was jetted so lean with the timing retarded so far back to avoid over-heating. I got it timed right and then got the jetting right and it was a very powerful machine.
I will say this: This bike really appears to run a heck of a lot better on Points than it did with the Ultima Single Fire. No coughing; warms up quicker, and starts - kick and electric much easier, and it is cold here now!
I will say this: This bike really appears to run a heck of a lot better on Points than it did with the Ultima Single Fire. No coughing; warms up quicker, and starts - kick and electric much easier, and it is cold here now!
and of course Single fire Vs Dual Fire is just Not any discernible Difference ...only the timing could have been the problem...maybe the Advance Curve is different too...
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