80 FXS grinding problem.
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80 FXS grinding problem.
I have a 1980 FXS with a belt primary and a belt secondary. When I take of the bike feals like it is going to rattle and grind itself to death. It only does it when taking off. I just got the the bike when my father passed away so there is no way of knowing if this has been an ongoing problem.
I put a new clutch hub and all new clutch plates on the bike thinking that had to be the problem. Well low and behold the new clutch made absolutly no diffrence at all. The horific sound does seem to be coming from the primary when I have the cover off it is very noticable thats where the sound is coming from.
I called a guy here localy and he claims that this is a common thing on the belt primary shovels and that they all do it. Now he also said that he had a trick to make it so its not as bad. He claims that for $100 in parts and $150 in labor he can make it signifigantly better, but he doesnt want to tell me because I will just fix it myself.
So here is my question. Has anyone here gone through this problem before that might have any sugestions? I cant bring myself to ride the bike the way it is. It just hurts me too much to hear that racket
I put a new clutch hub and all new clutch plates on the bike thinking that had to be the problem. Well low and behold the new clutch made absolutly no diffrence at all. The horific sound does seem to be coming from the primary when I have the cover off it is very noticable thats where the sound is coming from.
I called a guy here localy and he claims that this is a common thing on the belt primary shovels and that they all do it. Now he also said that he had a trick to make it so its not as bad. He claims that for $100 in parts and $150 in labor he can make it signifigantly better, but he doesnt want to tell me because I will just fix it myself.
So here is my question. Has anyone here gone through this problem before that might have any sugestions? I cant bring myself to ride the bike the way it is. It just hurts me too much to hear that racket
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 64
From: SoCal
Is the trans input shaft properly supported by the inner primary bearing? Is the shaft worn where it goes through that bearing? Is the new clutch hub running true on it's taper on the shaft?
Is the front pulley running true on the splined engine shaft?
Pressure plate warped?
You say it gets louder when you pull the primary cover. Is the primary cover vented to allow air to flow through it? Belt drives need to have air flow around them or they will overheat.
Is the front pulley running true on the splined engine shaft?
Pressure plate warped?
You say it gets louder when you pull the primary cover. Is the primary cover vented to allow air to flow through it? Belt drives need to have air flow around them or they will overheat.
Last edited by megawatt; Jan 21, 2009 at 09:54 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 20
From: Eagle River WI
My guess would be the 4 rubber dampers (2 large/2 small ) that run inside the front belt compensator sprocket Maybe dry rot or disintegrated ! Good luck in finding these parts Just a thought ! Maybe go to a BDL belt set up
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I am not sure what 4 rubber dampers you are talking about on here?
By the way, what is a BDL belt set up?
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Is the trans input shaft properly supported by the inner primary bearing? Is the shaft worn where it goes through that bearing? Is the new clutch hub running true on it's taper on the shaft?
Is the front pulley running true on the splined engine shaft?
Pressure plate warped?
You say it gets louder when you pull the primary cover. Is the primary cover vented to allow air to flow through it? Belt drives need to have air flow around them or they will overheat.
Is the front pulley running true on the splined engine shaft?
Pressure plate warped?
You say it gets louder when you pull the primary cover. Is the primary cover vented to allow air to flow through it? Belt drives need to have air flow around them or they will overheat.
I am not sure how to check to see if the input shaft is properly supported by the inner bearing. I can not feal any up and down or front to back play in the shaft. But do I need to take the the inner primary completly off the bike to check that properly? If so is that a huge deal to take the inner primary half off?
Eyeballing the clutch hub/basket and the front pulley(compensator sprocket) they both seem to run very true with little to no wobble. And I ran a straight edge on the pressure plate and that was flat.
And yes the derby cover and the belt tensioner hole covers are both vented.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 20
From: Eagle River WI
Jason D Looking at the pic the front sprocket and the clutch sprocket look aftermarket not original so forget the story about the 4 rubber dampers See if the rotor is tight Thats the metal dish under the front sprocket ( covers the stator ) The earlier rotors didn't have splines and tend to get sloppy It looks like the belt has a bottom tensioner I don't like this set up (reverses the belt internal cords ) I've seen alot of belts break with this set up BDL makes primary belt drives ( without idlers/tensioners ) In fact looking at the picture again this looks like a BDL 11mm set up with idler I'd go with an 8mm belt system no idler There are ways to get belt adj with that inner prim like elongating the holes on the 4 motor mount holes ( inner primary ) so one can move the trany back and forth I don't like tight primary belts That's my 2 cents !
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 64
From: SoCal
Are you using the old staggered roller bearing set up on the clutch hub? Going to the long roller bearing arrangement called "the big fix" may help. It would stabilize the clutch shell somewhat when the clutch is in the released position.
sqdealgeorge,
Would the tamer have any benefit for him? He hasn't mentioned the clutch not fully releasing so I assume it is not a problem.
Jason D,
Primary belt drives caused me a lot of grief. I went back to chain drive. When my bike fully warmed up, the belt would get VERY tight and caused the inner primary bearing to fail which then started chewing on my tranny input shaft. I had other problems with them too. Lots of guys run 'em without issues...I just couldn't get them to work well for me.
Harley gave up on primary belt drives and went back to chain drive. I imagine it was because they caused Harley a lot of grief (warranty work).
sqdealgeorge,
Would the tamer have any benefit for him? He hasn't mentioned the clutch not fully releasing so I assume it is not a problem.
Jason D,
Primary belt drives caused me a lot of grief. I went back to chain drive. When my bike fully warmed up, the belt would get VERY tight and caused the inner primary bearing to fail which then started chewing on my tranny input shaft. I had other problems with them too. Lots of guys run 'em without issues...I just couldn't get them to work well for me.
Harley gave up on primary belt drives and went back to chain drive. I imagine it was because they caused Harley a lot of grief (warranty work).
Last edited by megawatt; Jan 22, 2009 at 08:43 PM.
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Of course when I bought a new clutch hub a couple weeks ago no one told me and of course I didnt know the diffrence about the "big fix" hub with the full length rollers so they sold me one with the stagered rollers.
I realy dont want to go to a chain setup due to the fact that I can see where I will be fighting oil leaks. There are some holes that look to be made in the bottom of the primary for some type of air flow or something so I would need a whole inner and outer primary to get it to even hold oil.
So here is my delima. Do i order a new clutch hub with the full rollers and a clutch tamer which is going to run somewhere around $150-200 or do I just start to look into a whole new dry primary setup(front sprocket, new belt, and whole clutch setup)? Does anone have any sugestions of what brand of dry primary I should be looking at if I was to start over with all new? Is there any way to have an open primary and still have the electric start or is that out the window with and open primary?
I realy dont want to go to a chain setup due to the fact that I can see where I will be fighting oil leaks. There are some holes that look to be made in the bottom of the primary for some type of air flow or something so I would need a whole inner and outer primary to get it to even hold oil.
So here is my delima. Do i order a new clutch hub with the full rollers and a clutch tamer which is going to run somewhere around $150-200 or do I just start to look into a whole new dry primary setup(front sprocket, new belt, and whole clutch setup)? Does anone have any sugestions of what brand of dry primary I should be looking at if I was to start over with all new? Is there any way to have an open primary and still have the electric start or is that out the window with and open primary?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 64
From: SoCal
Jason D,
You don't need a whole new clutch hub. I believe the "big fix" comes as a package of bearings and probably some grease.
Unless you are having problems with the clutch not fully releasing, you probably don't need a "tamer." I'm not sure it will help with your squeal/chatter problem. That's why I asked sqdealgeorge about it.
I'm just throwing out some ideas that MAY help.
Is the clutch you are using designed to be run dry?
Did it come with all new steel plates between the fiber plates? If you used the old steels, are they flat and clean? It sometimes helps to scuff the steels lightly with scotchgard pads.
If the steels were not completely clean when you reinstalled the clutch, they may have contaminated the fiber plates necessitating cleaning the fiber plates now.
From the picture it looks like everything is clean but I thought I better ask.
I just had a thought. If you are using any of the old style steel plates that have a ball and spring assemblies on 'em, did you stagger them in relation to one another when you assembled the clutch?
You don't need a whole new clutch hub. I believe the "big fix" comes as a package of bearings and probably some grease.
Unless you are having problems with the clutch not fully releasing, you probably don't need a "tamer." I'm not sure it will help with your squeal/chatter problem. That's why I asked sqdealgeorge about it.
I'm just throwing out some ideas that MAY help.
Is the clutch you are using designed to be run dry?
Did it come with all new steel plates between the fiber plates? If you used the old steels, are they flat and clean? It sometimes helps to scuff the steels lightly with scotchgard pads.
If the steels were not completely clean when you reinstalled the clutch, they may have contaminated the fiber plates necessitating cleaning the fiber plates now.
From the picture it looks like everything is clean but I thought I better ask.
I just had a thought. If you are using any of the old style steel plates that have a ball and spring assemblies on 'em, did you stagger them in relation to one another when you assembled the clutch?
Last edited by megawatt; Jan 23, 2009 at 05:06 PM.