No Device: Wide Band or Narrow Band ?
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
What device doesn't show trims? Plus, there are other ways of verifying, but lets not get off topic.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Here is a Doubling of power of power in .1 sec and the O2s fully recover in .181 sec. The accelerators at the bottom of the screen never missed a beat. That is plenty fast enough in my book to make any tuning decision I need to make.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/CRX/Wideband%...nse%20Time.png
Andy
http://www.nbs-stl.com/CRX/Wideband%...nse%20Time.png
Andy
Let's look at what is being shown. We have a starting line and a finish line. Down at the bottom he is showing it is only .181. There are 7 dash's between these lines. Each dash is about .025. Notice where the finish line is. It is right where the AFR steady states again. BUT the starting line is about 2 dash's past where the AFR isn't steady state. 2 dash's behind where the TB was opened and KPA went up. Two dash's would be .025 + .025 + .181 = .231. That is pretty close to .250 or 4 times a second. If he would post up the actual log file. We could get closer because I am biasing my error on his side for the sake of being fair and I don't want to spin data for my purpose.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Being that a huge percentage of tuning a Harley VE table is based on the long and short term fuel trims, the theoretical response time if the 02 sensor is almost a useless piece of data. If the trims are leaning hard on the tune, you have issues. If the O2 sensors are not in their sweet spot, you have issues.
Andy
Andy
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Originally Posted by whittlebeast
Being that a huge percentage of tuning a Harley VE table is based on the long and short term fuel trims, the theoretical response time if the 02 sensor is almost a useless piece of data. If the trims are leaning hard on the tune, you have issues. If the O2 sensors are not in their sweet spot, you have issues.
Andy
Andy
Only systems that use trims are the ones using stock narrow bands, and we can all read through and get your opinions on those.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Nope, not PID's. Is that really how you read my post? Like me and other tuners have said to you. That is a non issue. I can go and talk about the scatter plot you posted about it. Show you how everything is really zoomed in, and compare the size of the dots to others. I could also bring up the scaling game and how that can show a real different way of looking at it. Just like a couple of part timers wanted to do with dyno sheet scaling on HTT.
But, if you want to talk PID's. Start a thread.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Here is a couple of interesting plots from the data Jason posted.
On the left, you can see the Narrow Bands and the Wide Bands responding to the Duty cycle changing.
On the right, you can see the O2s responding to a big change in air flow.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...WB%20Graph.png
And then the AFR from the Wide Bands compared to the voltage from the Narrow Bands.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20Scatter.png
So when the O2 voltage is 860mv, what is the AFR? See the vertical white lines.
Andy
On the left, you can see the Narrow Bands and the Wide Bands responding to the Duty cycle changing.
On the right, you can see the O2s responding to a big change in air flow.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...WB%20Graph.png
And then the AFR from the Wide Bands compared to the voltage from the Narrow Bands.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20Scatter.png
So when the O2 voltage is 860mv, what is the AFR? See the vertical white lines.
Andy
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Here is a couple of interesting plots from the data Jason posted.
On the left, you can see the Narrow Bands and the Wide Bands responding to the Duty cycle changing.
On the right, you can see the O2s responding to a big change in air flow.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...WB%20Graph.png
And then the AFR from the Wide Bands compared to the voltage from the Narrow Bands.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20Scatter.png
So when the O2 voltage is 860mv, what is the AFR? See the vertical white lines.
Andy
On the left, you can see the Narrow Bands and the Wide Bands responding to the Duty cycle changing.
On the right, you can see the O2s responding to a big change in air flow.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...WB%20Graph.png
And then the AFR from the Wide Bands compared to the voltage from the Narrow Bands.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...%20Scatter.png
So when the O2 voltage is 860mv, what is the AFR? See the vertical white lines.
Andy
Once again this is meaningless with out the data file. I understand it is a file I posted but which one? I have posted several. Just hand picking a piece of data without the whole file present is worthless. What are we looking at? Is it warm up? What frame number? What are the other channels showing?
How does this go with the topic?
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23