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The answer is you do not believe the experts. The people who tune these daily. you do not believe the people who make the product. So I am not going to waist my time with you. You know better than all the people that make a living designing stuff of HD's and people working on HD's for a living.
I do know, not wasting my time, its been explained in many threads.
Originally Posted by Peter Quinn
Sorry for your frustration.I realize I am beating a drum in a one man band but I have searched for the limiter and not found any evidence of it!
I have not read any factory reference to a speed limiter.I have seen a reference that it is setable at any speed via the tuner from respectable technical experts on these forums.
My personal tests indicate that the M 8 engine can push just a little faster than a Twin Cam in standard form.With the Speed Sensor disconnected,this happens to be 110Mph.
OK now we have a 110 mph bike with a 107 mph limiter?
I get it, we can now tell people who make jokes about us that our Harley's aren't slow.They are SPEED LIMITED!
I am frustrated because the below has been posted more than once. For some reason you do not seem to understand it.
I and many other will believe the expert below. Reason is two fold in my case. I hit the limiter on my 17 CVO Street glide, which I traded on my 18 CVO Street glide. I hit the limiter on my 18 CVO. They man who tuned my bike, hit the limiter on the dyno first pull, before he removed it with the TTS master tuner. My bike will now go faster than I care to ride it.
The explanation is below. If you do not like his explanation, Jamie at fuel moto has said the same. There are at least three other tuners on here who do not make products, just build and tune bikes for a living all say there is a speed limiter.
Originally Posted by Steve Cole
The bold area above is incorrect. Get your manuals out and you will see it for yourself. The signal from the sensor goes to the ECM, it does not go to the speedo at all. The ECM transmits the information on the Data buss which the speedo reads and displays. It has been this way since back in 2005 on HD bikes. Earlier than 2005 bikes were wired a few different ways. Now as far as altering the signal you will then screw with the ECM logic as it measures engine speed and calculates vehicle speed and gear information. Since your trying to fool it, those calculations will now be in error, so it is possible that it defaults to an unknowen state. Without taking all that part of the code apart I cannot tell you for sure what it will do. The fact is that all stock 2017 and 2018 HD bike sold in the USA and most other countries that I deal with ALL have the speed limiter set and working at the same speed.
Thank you for the explanation again.
Last edited by FLSTFI Dave; Mar 29, 2018 at 10:27 PM.
More ridiculous justification, this device is developed for Superbike applications and it works on all of them.Are you telling me that only the Harley ECM has Devine intervention to detect that the pulse frequency has been slowed or speeded up.Theorys have to be based on Logic and testing not some dream about a maximum speed limiter set at exactly the maximum speed the bike is capable of.
Why did you have to buy a CVO and spend $5000 more to get it to go faster if you could just have spent $80 on a device to bypass the so called speed limiter?Why didn't they just deactivate the Limiter?How much does it limit the actual speed? Why is this a secret?
If my bike is an exception and somehow the limiter was not activated in the factory why does it not go more than 105 Mph in standard form?
More ridiculous justification, this device is developed for Superbike applications and it works on all of them.Are you telling me that only the Harley ECM has Devine intervention to detect that the pulse frequency has been slowed or speeded up.Theorys have to be based on Logic and testing not some dream about a maximum speed limiter set at exactly the maximum speed the bike is capable of.
Why did you have to buy a CVO and spend $5000 more to get it to go faster if you could just have spent $80 on a device to bypass the so called speed limiter?Why didn't they just deactivate the Limiter?How much does it limit the actual speed? Why is this a secret?
If my bike is an exception and somehow the limiter was not activated in the factory why does it not go more than 105 Mph in standard form?
Are you F-n kidding me? These aren't opinions conjured up out of thin air, they're facts. Easily confirmed facts. Talk to a dealer tech or anyone else with first hand experience. You admitted earlier that you had a download done to your bike, yet you persist in stating your lack of top speed limiter on your bike as if it's bone stock. Frankly, you don't know what parameters were changed in your ECM. I guess it is true that technology that is sufficiently advanced for those without knowledge is equivalent to magic. Is the world still flat? Is the moon landing fake? Is this all part of some conspiracy aimed at creating the new world order?
Wheels and tires are stock, so presumably the calibration is correct for them.
Should get the bike back tomorrow, and can verify speedometer calibration against a phone GPS. If that comes back anywhere near accurate, then it would seem to confirm the speed limit was raised in the Harley Stage II tune.
A cursory glance at the SE tuner software shows that it does let you modify the RPM limit, but I didn't find anyplace to set or raise the overall speed limit. If the SE calibration did raise it, either it did so in a field I can't find, or it's a field the software doesn't let the user access.
If you have access to a dyno the simple test is to run the bike in 6th gear and make a dyno pull. See what RPM the bike tops at or let off if it goes to 6000 RPM. Remember you need to be in 6th gear as lower gears (1 - 4) will allow it to run out to 6000 RPM
Steve I have had this M8 SGS for a year.9 months ago when it was still standard I did not feel any limiter besides the obvious rev limiter. I have been riding all my long life and know that if a bike can't hold 100 on a long gentle uphill it is not hitting any limiter and it won't go much over 110 on the flat and just because it won't go faster dosnt mean you've hit any limiter!
So I started looking for a limiter.First I raised the back wheel onto stands and strapped the bike to the wall.I ran it to the rev limiter in each gear up to 5th and it pulled all the way to 220 KMH in 6th. Then I bought and fitted the Speedohealer.I set the speed sensor to under read by 30% and went on the same road at the same speed ,other than the Speedo reading 75 it went exactly the same actual speed.No way it could still trip any limiter at 75?
However it did go a bit faster when I added stage 1 and more when I did Stage11. Three months ago I did the High compression 114 Stage 111.Speed increased substantially!
I do the work myself but to get the best result I had SE tuning done by the dealer.As reported it now pulls through 120 which is scary!
Have you ever run a comparison on a standard M8 and one with just the limiter off?
The first chart in post 47 shows the results of a stock 107 in 6th gear on the dyno, note the RPM it kills the power at! That's not a rev limiter in action that is the speed limiter controlling it. The other dyno charts are again in 6th gear but after I removed the Speed Limiter.
Well, that's some incontrovertible proof right there. Peter, man, you gotta see what he's saying.
On the chart Steve shows, the bike hit the wall at what looks like 4300 RPM in 6th gear. That isn't the rev limiter, clearly -- the rev limiter is 5500 on a stock M8.
So to put that in terms of speed: my bike does 50 mph at 2000 RPM. 75 mph at 3000 RPM. So at 4300 RPM it would be 107.5 miles per hour. Exactly as the dyno says it should be, and where the limiter should be cutting off the fuel.
I accept this as definitive proof that the stock M8 touring bikes in the USA have a speed limiter, and that it is limited to 107 mph (unless the limiter is changed by tuning software).
However -- the fact remains - my bike has done 117 mph. It is a USA bike, it has no aftermarket tune, only SE stuff. I can definitively say it has no limiter at 107. So there's something else at play here. Either:
a) the Softails may have a different limit from the Touring bikes. Or maybe the Fat Bob, being the hot rod of the Softail lineup, has a different limiter than others. OR:
b) the Harley tuner raises or removes the limit when doing a Stage II Torque cam upgrade.
I still don't have my bike back yet so I can't verify the speedometer, but I am very skeptical that my speedometer is so far out of whack that it reports 117 when the bike's going 107. The fact that my revs and speed line up pretty much exactly with what Steve Cole's dyno shows for when the speed limiter kicks in, tells me that my speedometer is probably reasonably accurate. And that speedo has shown 117.
Here are the exact same dyno runs plotted against Vehicle Speed this time instead of RPM. I placed the cursor just after the ECM cut the power and its pretty obvious what the speed is!
Well, that's some incontrovertible proof right there. Peter, man, you gotta see what he's saying.
On the chart Steve shows, the bike hit the wall at what looks like 4300 RPM in 6th gear. That isn't the rev limiter, clearly -- the rev limiter is 5500 on a stock M8.
So to put that in terms of speed: my bike does 50 mph at 2000 RPM. 75 mph at 3000 RPM. So at 4300 RPM it would be 107.5 miles per hour. Exactly as the dyno says it should be, and where the limiter should be cutting off the fuel.
I accept this as definitive proof that the stock M8 touring bikes in the USA have a speed limiter, and that it is limited to 107 mph (unless the limiter is changed by tuning software).
However -- the fact remains - my bike has done 117 mph. It is a USA bike, it has no aftermarket tune, only SE stuff. I can definitively say it has no limiter at 107. So there's something else at play here. Either:
a) the Softails may have a different limit from the Touring bikes. Or maybe the Fat Bob, being the hot rod of the Softail lineup, has a different limiter than others. OR:
b) the Harley tuner raises or removes the limit when doing a Stage II Torque cam upgrade.
I still don't have my bike back yet so I can't verify the speedometer, but I am very skeptical that my speedometer is so far out of whack that it reports 117 when the bike's going 107. The fact that my revs and speed line up pretty much exactly with what Steve Cole's dyno shows for when the speed limiter kicks in, tells me that my speedometer is probably reasonably accurate. And that speedo has shown 117.
The SE stuff that you mention also has the ability to change the top speed limiter. It's not limited to just aftermarket tuners. When you went to stage 2 or 3, that would've been changed with the other settings.
The SE stuff that you mention also has the ability to change the top speed limiter. It's not limited to just aftermarket tuners. When you went to stage 2 or 3, that would've been changed with the other settings.
I believe that must be exactly what did happen. I can't see any other reasonable explanation. I did go looking for the limiter in the Harley software, but I couldn't find it in some preliminary poking around. Found the rev limiter, but not the speed limiter.
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