^^^ I used the same setup except the VP84 instead of the 95. Grips great and no more slippage after getting over the 120 tq/100 hp hump.

 

Thanks Jay Guild. I will most likely be doing something similar. I am also changing out the Cam plate and oil pump since I am going to be in there anyway. Probably changing to this:
https://www.harley-davidson.com/stor...-oil-pump#tabs

Or this

https://www.sscycle.com/products/tc3...-hd-big-twins/

Probably just stay with the SE though the S&S is probably very well made as well.

I am also going to remain with the SE259 Cams until and unless I determine they are not what I really want. I got to test ride a friend’s wide glide which has some mods and SE259 Cams and it performed quite well. Wide Glide has no Stage IV kit on it but still pulls hard higher up in the RPM range of 3rd gear and up. (He didn’t do Cylinders, Heads etc) and his exhaust are slipons only.

Originally this was just going to be a “refresh” but it has morphed into something much closer to an outright rebuild/upgrade. Lol. It will be a happy little bike after all this stuff is complete. It’s actually good fun learning about all these parts of its engine etc during the process. Am I going overboard in some areas? Yup. I am okay with that though.

 

You will need a clutch upgrade, many different options here. I would suggest a variable pressure clutch which will install on top of your stock spring. SE and AIM both make a version of them. You could also upgrade the spring instead (cheaper option) but you'll feel an increase in lever pull which most people don't like.

If you're doing big bore/heads/cam you will need a bigger throttle body. SE is the cheaper route but HPI is probably the better choice.

New cam plate and oil pump shouldn't be needed, there is nothing wrong with the stock OE pieces.

If you are serious about replacing all these items in the bike, i'd strongly suggest you just look into swapping the motor. Add up the cost for everything you are planning to do, then look at the cost of an S&S T111. You'll find they are not too far apart. Plus the S&S motor comes with a 2 year warranty.

 

aim makes the se and S&S VPC.

why do you folks keep recommending that old t111 that cast the same as a t124? $6k .... the oil pan? the primary/tranny? why?
peace of mind i guess... i don't know.


t111 at $6k before install gets you....

122t/115h


that's not worth it, to me anyway. got the same output and similar curves for 1/2 the cost. onl issue for me is my crank is stock... everything else is Bruce approved.
$6.5k and R&R, he might as well get the touring bike going. geting the the 1/2 off tire shredder and installation will be about 2.5. not really close to 6.5

 

Tire shredder kit is garbage and shouldn't even be considered. Any out of the box kit should be eliminated. At the very least a phone call should be made to a dealer (fulemoto or hillside) to discuss needs. They will build the motor around the rider. This is the proper way to do it.

S&S motors can be had for less than 6.5k. If you shop around you can usually find them for 6k and if you know someone you can probably get it for 5.6k.

With the build being talked about (p/c, heads, cams, oil pump, cam plate) your looking closer to 3k. Doing upgrades on a motor with 40k miles, if it were me i'd do the swap. Thats my personal preference. It'll be cheaper in the long run if he keeps the bike for a while.

I recommend the 111 because its got a better warranty. Sure the 124 makes more power but when a guy puts this many miles on a bike this quick i'd be more concerned with longevity and reliability. Another reason I recommend the swap.

 

Good points all around.
I think part of the reasoning I have for the rebuild versus an outright engine swap is that I am enjoying learning about the motor. I am a commercial pilot and know airplane motors inside out upside down and backwards but the HD motor is a mystery in many ways. Learning about how its composed is fun for me.
I am with you on the S&S and the point about longevity is solid and dead on target. I do want a certain amount of reliability and that is the reason I am not going larger than the 110. However the S&S 111 is totally doable based on size alone. 111=110 in my head.
About the only reason I am not shipping this bike to Fuel Moto is that the soonest they can do anything is bloody September. Ugg.
The Tire Shredder kit for me is a great deal. Reviews of it are mostly positive with some people warning me off.
If Fuel Moto would agree to start working in like a week, I'd ship the bike tomorrow. So I guess that makes the Tire Shredder my number 2 choice. Maybe I am being a doofus but I really don't want to wait until the summer is over to enjoy the fun that upgrading all these items will have. Maybe I will offer FM an extra few hundred to slide in sooner. hehe
I do need to look at the S&S engines seriously. So many guys and gals are saying go S&S that I really can't give it anything less than a in depth look. That warranty aspect is a huge plus as well.
I will get a year warranty on the Tire Shredder stuff according to my dealer and yes, they will put that in writing.

So all this information is great. I am learning a lot and have a truckload to go still. I can do a complete engine and still learn I know but there is sorta a sense of accomplishment inherent for me in selecting the components myself too. lol

No matter what happens, something is happening this week. Either its SE, S&S or I can schmooze FM into doing the work sooner than September. I really like the FM for some reason.

 

tire shredder is not garbage. The only real issue there is the cast se pistons vs some nice forged ones. That's definitely your own opinion.

That engine forum hivemind stuff about calling fuel moto, veetwin, or hillside only to have them send mic'd s&s(or woods, cr, tman, etc) parts, in a box, does not really hold water. guess it is better corrugated box.. Its still an out of the box kit. End of the day, Its just a box of boxes that made more stops.... to me anyway. Definitely not the general public's opinion. People like being romanced, I'm just here for the p***y. If there's no headwork happening... you are buying a boxed kit, no matter how you slice it. so saying no boxed kit should be considered then turning around and saying call for a boxed kit... if there is headwork, you are buying a handcuffed boxed kit.


So 3k is 3k. Its not 5.5-6.5k before r&r. That not even remotely close in price.

okay on the t111 for touring and mashing miles. Thats also star's stance. I can't speak for OP. Just seems like a bad value @ $7-9k, all said and done. If this was 2010, yeah great... but, it's not. I'm with op on the building and understanding whats going on and the personal curation vs outsourcing the process. Might be semi-youthful stupidity on my part.

That 7-9k along with the value of the fld and incentives is the start of low miles touring bike or a 18 heritage/sport glide.

 

Each option has its pros and cons of course. My first option is the Fuel Moto kit. However, I want FM to do the work and if I have to wait until summer is essentially over to have it done, pass.
That leaves option B which is the Tire Shredder kit and a few extras and can be installed by my dealer in just over 2 weeks, maybe sooner.
Option C is the S&S Kits but who will install it? Finding a mechanic has been an exercise in futility thus far.

Option D is to buy an S&S engine outright and just have it dropped in. That will be a close to 10K adventure I am sure. THe engines are all 6-9K and installation, a fuel system and/or ignition will take it all above 10K by the time its all said and done. Or at least thats my guess on what it would take.
Maybe I am just operating from a place of more ignorance than knowledge but to do a stage IV kit, exhaust etc etc and not do the clutch, and other things seems foolhardy to me. I am not convinced a "spring" alone is sufficient to reinforce the clutch system. Maybe I am not a mechanic so I don't know but in my mind if you raise the power out put on a drive train, you reinforce the transmission as well, right? Otherwise you have a potential case of nice new cylinders, pistons, valves etc etc all being pumped through a time weakened transmission/clutch system that was never designed for this level of power to begin with. I can see how that could get sideways in a big hurry.
Higher compression = higher temps so an improved cooling system is probably warranted. Say hi to an Oil Cooler since I live in a desert climate and ride an air cooled twin. lol

Even dropping in a crate S&S is going to require the addition of these sorts of things, which is going to push the costs higher of course.

I think option A is the best option if I can make it work. I asked FM for a referral to someone good and I am waiting on an email back from those folks now.
I'll take Option A via a FM recommended installer/mechanic/dyno tuner.

I am sure I will trim back some of the things I am replacing before its all said and done but I do forecast this will cost about 4.5 to 6.5K after its all said an done. Labor is not cheap and that represents about 1500-2000 of the cost figures.

Its almost worth it for me to ship the bike to FM and then ship it back after its done. I just aint waiting until September. Nope. Sorry. My line of thinking is that if you have to tell customers who want to spend thousands that they have to wait 5 months to use the items you are selling them, you need to hire a lot more people. Seriously, that is the one negative thing I see about FM. They appear to be grossly understaffed.

If FM cannot do it, the Tire Shredder becomes the best option I believe.

EDIT
I just saw what I should have noticed right off the bat. LOL I am just going to call the dealer and FM and just tell them what I want as far as results instead of starting things out with "I really like the _______Kit so can we install that? Oh and I want to add A, B, C, D and E as well."
I can just tell them what results I want and provide a budget, right? Let them figure out how to fill the order. As long as my budget is realistic, shouldn't be an issue, one would believe right? That is after all, what they do. Yes?

My reasoning for not grabbing the Road Glide is more than just money. I like my Dyna's balance, agility and personality. Its an agile little guy in dire need of some serious upgrades to realize its full potential. Aside from the miles I have on it, that Dyna is in perfect shape. I baby the hell out of it and I change the oil religiously before it ever gets 2K on any one oil. This applies to all three oils. (Primary, Tranny and Engine). It gets new tires and brakes every 8K need them or not. I am probably throwing money down the drain this way but I have a happy bike so its worth it. Hell I even have a guy who washes and details it weekly at the airport I am based at. Its a well care for bike.

 

Figuring out your end goal is a better way to approach it then throwing parts at it and see what happens. I did months of research before I started buying parts, and the end result is I have a bike that does exactly what I want and a dyno sheet that has the power I want where I want it.

I did all the work myself (short of porting the heads, plugging/welding the crank, and the dyno tune) so I didn't have to factor that in, which in my option makes the process easier.

One thing I've concluded with the Screaming Eagle kits vs Fuel Moto or S&S, is that they consistently seem to produce less power. I'm no expert, but I suspect the compression ratio is lower/closer to stock, which of course costs power.

You mentioned clutches--I'm running a VPC with Barnett clutch replacement friction material, no issues putting 138ft/lbs of torque through it, so far at least.

 

Just to clarify, you can't tune for power in specific gears. Any power gains you see will be in all gears. You can tune for high rpm power (big cams, etc), or low rpm grunt, or anything in between, but it will be the same in all gears.