Thoughts on Dealership Not Wanting to Dyno
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 585
Likes: 3
From: Boise, Idaho
Thoughts on Dealership Not Wanting to Dyno
I thought I would reach out to you guys and get your opinion on my latest meeting with my local HD Service Department. I have been stockpiling parts and I am just about ready to have them installed (VH Big Radius 2-2, Kuryakyn Mach 2 AC, SEPST, and 4" risers). I asked if the tech was going to take the bike and put it on the dyno after everything was installed and the Service Manager told me no; she told me the tech would use the pro tuner and load a map and call it good. I clarified it would not be the EPA friendly download but a custom SEPST Map. She said with just the upgrades I have, the dyno would be a waste of my money.
What are your thoughts on this? Is a map for the pro tuner good enough to get my bike running right or should I just make them go forward with the dyno as well? I am interested in hearing your opinions, please skip the "do it yourself " ones, I was blessed with the gifts to excell in my military career as an airborne/infantry/ranger but I am a complete retard with a wrench.
What are your thoughts on this? Is a map for the pro tuner good enough to get my bike running right or should I just make them go forward with the dyno as well? I am interested in hearing your opinions, please skip the "do it yourself " ones, I was blessed with the gifts to excell in my military career as an airborne/infantry/ranger but I am a complete retard with a wrench.
EVERY bike with a tuner and bolt ons receives a dyno tune at the dealer I work at, it's part of the package deal. Sounds like the service manager at your local doesn't know what she's doing. Get it on the dyno, that way it was done right and you won't have to bring it back for them to fix it.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,492
Likes: 103
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Here in Germany by default no bike with a stage 1 (A/C and exhaust upgrade and SEPST) goes on a dyno. Simply there hardly isn't any dealer who has one...too expensive!
Standard procedure is as you said...installing parts and downloading a map that matches the set-up by the best of the mechanic's knowledge. What they do on request and of course for extra $$$ is to adjust/improve basic map/SEPST settings by iterative trial runs.
I asked my dealer once for a dyno and they told me that they would need to take the bike 150 miles to Switzerland to get it done 'cause that is the closest available dyno that can be booked/used by 3rd-party. They quoted 400 Euro only for the dyno plus transport and labor...
Standard procedure is as you said...installing parts and downloading a map that matches the set-up by the best of the mechanic's knowledge. What they do on request and of course for extra $$$ is to adjust/improve basic map/SEPST settings by iterative trial runs.
I asked my dealer once for a dyno and they told me that they would need to take the bike 150 miles to Switzerland to get it done 'cause that is the closest available dyno that can be booked/used by 3rd-party. They quoted 400 Euro only for the dyno plus transport and labor...
Road Captain
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 631
Likes: 26
From: Rome (Italy)
As my mate EagleRay stated it depends on where you're located. In Europe is like that but, honestly, my personal experience is that a good Dyno is worth doing especially if you use SEPST and if you're installing NON Screaminin' Eagle AC and Mufflers.
As far as I saw when I had the first map downloaded via SEPST, you have some standard configurations for your specific engine(e.g. 103ci), for example: "AC", AC and Mufflers", "AC, Mufflers and Cams" etc. They are obviously quite generic maps that might fit and be acceptable if you use normal Screamin' Eagle parts but, at least in my case, these maps weren't fitting my V&H Big Shots Staggered exhaust. I was experiencing an heavy decel popping and also feeling the engine wasn't working as supposed.
Had a proper Dyno with a specialist (my local HD Dealer doesn't provide Dyno either) and guess what? Bike changed completely. Decel Popping reduced by over 90%, running smoother and cooler, better performance in terms of torque/hp...etc.
So, imho, in your case I'd suggest to have a Dyno tune and bet you'll be happy with it.
As far as I saw when I had the first map downloaded via SEPST, you have some standard configurations for your specific engine(e.g. 103ci), for example: "AC", AC and Mufflers", "AC, Mufflers and Cams" etc. They are obviously quite generic maps that might fit and be acceptable if you use normal Screamin' Eagle parts but, at least in my case, these maps weren't fitting my V&H Big Shots Staggered exhaust. I was experiencing an heavy decel popping and also feeling the engine wasn't working as supposed.
Had a proper Dyno with a specialist (my local HD Dealer doesn't provide Dyno either) and guess what? Bike changed completely. Decel Popping reduced by over 90%, running smoother and cooler, better performance in terms of torque/hp...etc.
So, imho, in your case I'd suggest to have a Dyno tune and bet you'll be happy with it.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 11
From: Mass/NH
I have a stage one on my rocker like your doing. I put the cobra tuner with the oxygen sensors on. Runs perfect with no pop on decel, etc., ever...with a stage one I don't think you have to get it dyno tuned unless it's run bad...
Hope it works out good for you.
Hope it works out good for you.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 153
From: Midlands of SC
Similar experience as Nostra. Same setup and pipes, bike ran fine but heavy popping when under 2600 rpm. On the second trip to the dealer, i made them ride it and they experienced the popping. Still no dyno but they have 95% popping gone and I am good with it. Funny, on the way out the owner told one of the techs that a 2013 streetglide with the same setup as mine was doing the same thing. He said they would keep an eye on the new ones with V&H. Around here the BSS are the most popular.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,778
Likes: 69
From: Badlands of ND
The dealer said it would not be worth the money. The money is yours. If you want to do it, tell them. I doubt that they would refuse to take your cash,
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Supporter
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 73
From: Pittsburgh, PA
As for the canned map download, it almost certainly would be an EPA compliant map, and I doubt you'd be happy with it.
I had all my Stage 1 hardware installed at the dealer for free since it was purchased through them, and the download only made things worse IMO.
The bike ran a good 20-25° hotter, my MPG went even higher (which proved it was still way too lean) and decel pop was brutal and constant, making the bike nearly unrideable.
Of course the dealer that did all this offered to "fix" it for another $350 with a dyno.
Time to find a new dealer...
The service manager I use now actually pulled me outside to give me the "straight scoop" when I asked them about all this, and he said in no uncertain terms that spending the $$ on a dyno tune with just a Stage 1 setup was a "sucker's bet", and that he wouldn't recommend it, even though he'd be happy to take my money if I really wanted it done.
He also said that most of the current flash tuners would get me to about 95% of what a dyno would do for less money.
Besides, I get to keep the tuner whereas any changes I might make later could require another dyno session.
Now he did say that if I ever decide to go with cams, heads, etc. then a dyno would be the way to go, but until then to save my money.
I wound up going with a V&H FuelPak 3 and couldn't be happier with the results.
They even say their maps were developed from bikes on dynos.
YMMV.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,195
Likes: 11,310
From: San Diego, CA
Even a stock bike will run it's best after a good dyno tune. A dyno tune, when done by a competent tuner (not as plentiful as you may think), cannot be beat for getting your bike to run it's best. That is indisputable.
However, for a street bike, the big question is, "What is good enough?"
Some will tell you that with just an A/C & exhaust, the stock tune will compensate. Due to the lean condition of OEM/EPA tunes.. I wouldn't do this to my bike.
I would not use an HD download, as they are EPA compliant and tend to be lean too.
My experience is with an '03 big bore kit (pistons, cams, A/C, exhaust) and a '12 stage 2 (cams, A/C, exhaust).
I am unaware of a good tuner in my area, so on both of these, I went with flash tunes from very competent sources. The '03 has a DynoJet tune and the '12 has a FuelMoto tune... both downloaded with my PowerVision tuner.
The bikes run flawlessly. I'm sure a good dyno tune could squeeze a little more out of them, but I seriously doubt I would feel a seat of the pants difference.
I even did a basic autotune on the '12, after downloading the FuelMoto map, and it was within 4%.... that's a pretty good canned tune.
If I were you, I would get a good map, based on your mods, from a competent source and download that to your bike.
Good luck with your mods..
However, for a street bike, the big question is, "What is good enough?"
Some will tell you that with just an A/C & exhaust, the stock tune will compensate. Due to the lean condition of OEM/EPA tunes.. I wouldn't do this to my bike.
I would not use an HD download, as they are EPA compliant and tend to be lean too.
My experience is with an '03 big bore kit (pistons, cams, A/C, exhaust) and a '12 stage 2 (cams, A/C, exhaust).
I am unaware of a good tuner in my area, so on both of these, I went with flash tunes from very competent sources. The '03 has a DynoJet tune and the '12 has a FuelMoto tune... both downloaded with my PowerVision tuner.
The bikes run flawlessly. I'm sure a good dyno tune could squeeze a little more out of them, but I seriously doubt I would feel a seat of the pants difference.
I even did a basic autotune on the '12, after downloading the FuelMoto map, and it was within 4%.... that's a pretty good canned tune.
If I were you, I would get a good map, based on your mods, from a competent source and download that to your bike.
Good luck with your mods..
Last edited by hattitude; Jan 9, 2015 at 09:39 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 11
From: USA
My dealer offers both as an option. For stage 1 they will flash with a map they have developed and have confidence in or they will do a dyno tune. They recommend the dyno, but for stage 1 they offer it either way. With their winter discount a dyno tune cost me $280. In relation to what I've spent on other accessories that do nothing for the performance of the engine, I was happy to spend it. I should add that in addition to the $280 for the tune I also had to spend $360 for the tuner, so there is that added cost.
How much will they charge you for the canned map ? Maybe work a deal with them, try the canned map and if your not satisfied apply the cost of it to a tuner and dyno tune.
What I like about the dyno tune is I have a print out that shows me the air/fuel ratios are lower than the lean, EPA compliant ratios that the bike came with.
How much will they charge you for the canned map ? Maybe work a deal with them, try the canned map and if your not satisfied apply the cost of it to a tuner and dyno tune.
What I like about the dyno tune is I have a print out that shows me the air/fuel ratios are lower than the lean, EPA compliant ratios that the bike came with.