I have a question and I'm looking for answers/opinions on the subject. My dad and I are working on a couple of project bikes (salvage titles) that he picked up for pretty much a song and dance with almost nothing more than cosmetic type fixes. He's getting up there in age and wanted one last go round and to own one more Harley before he's gone. I'm a 3rd generation Harley owner (this is my 2nd).

The bike he got me is an '05 Springer with an EFI TC88. She has 11,600 miles. Internally, everything looks good so far.

Here's my question; Is there any advantage to swap jugs and take it up to 95" (Hammer Performance) with a Fuel Management System? Or get the heads done (Stage 1 CNC) and go with a Fuel Management System to wring out the potential of the 88?

My last Harley was an '02 Night Train, carbureted with a stage 1 intake, exhaust, jetting. She had nice power, plenty of it, but definitely capable of much more.

I'm not necessarily looking to go with more aggressive cams or stuff like that just yet, but I'm looking for a touch more power and torque. I'm not racing for Pink Slips or light to light. I'm more "Mild" than "Wild". But I like knowing a twist of the throttle can get exciting if I want it to.

1) I've considered converting to carb (my preferred), but I can also think of other things I'd like/need to spend $1000 on other than the AMM-P3 ignition and an S&S Shorty Super E kit.

2) I'm considering a 95" Big Bore Kit with a V&H Fuelpak or a Power Commander V, if they have a setting/map for the upgrades I'm considering.

3) Do I keep it at 88", get the heads done, and run one of the systems above?

4) Or keep it relatively as is with a Stage 1 flash and fuel management, maybe a Dyno Tune?

At the moment it has no exhaust (damaged in the lay down/rotted from the heat wrap - no decision on replacement) and no Air Filter Assembly (ripped off the entire assembly including a breather bolt as well as breaking a piece off of the Throttle Body). It needs a bunch of other stuff as well, nickel and dime type stuff with the exception of the front end, but I want the engine to sing.

Thoughts?

 

A 95"/98" big bore kit with a good cam for your riding style and mild head work will really wake up a 88" A PC III from Fuel Moto and a dyno tune will will help. The EFI system is nice in that you're not messing with the carb to go to altitude or various other issues. The newer systems are as reliable as a rock.

 

Id say wait a little and save up for a 98" kit, headwork, and cams. Do the build right the first time and it will run better and cost you less.

 

I have been souping up cars for 35 years and never leave anything stock. I wrench, taught myself to tune, drag race, timed mile events, road course events.

I thought long and hard about the questions you posted when I got my bike. I love the sound of a big cam I figured at least I'd do that.

Here is where I came out. Unless you're building a drag harley, souping up a harley is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It frustrates you and annoys the pig. You can spend a lot of money but it's still an 800 lb motorcycle with at most 100 wheel HP (and you have to spend a lot to get it there and it's going to be lazy below 4000 rpm...right where you ride on the freeway). And you risk it being less reliable when you start fooling with it.

I put on pipes so it sounds good, new air cleaner that looks good, bought a tuner (but it just sucked more gas to I took it off) bought some apes, chrome and fringe and I just enjoy the ride and making noise.

Go fast money is better spent on another vehicle.

Just my opinion. So in summary, I'd choose your option 4 and spend the money you save on more chrome.

Oh and make sure that springer fork isn't bent. They are very expensive if you want a HD fork, even used it's $2000+.

 

I think I have to agree with you. I was really thinking about it a lot today and my number one priority is simply getting her back on the road. Period.

With 11,600 miles, I have a ways to go before I need to really start considering performance upgrades of any sort. I reminded myself to follow my own rule; If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The front end is a non-issue as there isn't one. It was removed after the accident, by somebody. They didn't even have the courtesy to not cut the cables and wires. I'm planning on a Wide Glide anyway. I loved the one on my Night Train. Already have a laced 21" rim with Avon tire. Need a new back wheel and tire as well.

It needs an entire air filter assembly and a new Throttle Body, so a performance intake is a no brainer. Looking at another Kuryakyn Hyper Charger (I like the look and those butterfly's up front).

Haven't decided on pipes, but I was really happy with the sound/performance of the Paughco Goose Neck Drag Pipes (with some Torque Cones) on the Night Train. Choices two and three are V&H Staggered Short Shots or some Santee LAF's (with cones). I'm fairly certain I'm going with a basic fuel management system, probably a V&H Fuelpak. It's simple, inexpensive and should do well with my "early" EFI.

Your advice and wisdom helped confirm what I was already thinking! Thanks.

And thank you to everyone who replied!!!

 

I think you're smart going about it that way.

Take a look at Fuel Moto's products. You're correct that our computers are super simple, no o2 feedback, speed density only systems. Because of that I saw no need to get fancy with the computer tuning. We are just one step above a carb system. Fuel Moto sells the Dyno Jet PCIII piggyback tuner, with a tune for your mods which you tell them, and lifetime free tune adjustments if you change things, for LESS than you can get it with no tune from Dyno Jet. And their customer service in my experience was TOP Notch. Give them a look when you are shopping. I should add, I ended up taking mine off as once I installed thumbscrews the power came back and the tuner was just wasting fuel. With thumbscrews or power cones IMHO you don't need a tuner. S&S did a great video and dyno test of thumbscrews in drag pipes and I did a thread on it:

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...confirmed.html

I notice that folks take off the hyper charger all the time, they are polarizing, some love them, some hate them. Post up in the forum that you want one and I bet you get one cheap. I know a guy did just took his off a day or so ago in the Evo forum.

Matter of fact, often folks will help you with parts that are just sitting on their shelf, I've paid it forward a few times on here and sent folks stuff that I wasn't using and they needed.

I would suggest you start a "rebuild" thread, post some pics of the bike, and make a list of what you are looking for. I daresay you'll get some folks happy to send you their stock bars and cables for cheap, most folks just put them on the shelf when they put on apes. Just another idea for you.

There's a place near me that parts Harleys, wreckedharleybikes.com I don't know them or how their prices are but I do know that's what they do if you need something.

Anyway, enough of my dumb ideas for you, if you do post up a thread try to remember to post a link, I love a rebuild thread and I'll follow along.

Oh one more thing, you want to check out your cam chain tensioners while the exhaust is off. Easy to do, I did a little how to thread:

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...with-pics.html

 

I can not disagree with anything JoeG said. Everyone has a different idea of what is the right thing to do with your bike and your money.

But there really are two schools of thought on this. I have had a Heritage Springer with the stock 88 (pipes, A/C, and tuner) and my current HS with the 95, cams, A/C, pipes, etc. It is so much easier and more fun to ride than the 88 CI. It is not a sport bike, by any measure, but is just as reliable as my 88, gets as good of mileage, and has much, much more usable power everywhere in the RPM range.

The dollars one can spend on performance upgrades are almost limitless, but for a couple/few grand or so, if you do your own work and shop around, you can get a reliable, much more enjoyable bike. My 88 unit was not deficient, but is not the bike the 95 is. Not by a long shot.

Ride safe!

 

Dave I also agree with you - there's no doubt a reasonable cam like an EV 27 and a set of 95 ci jugs will wake the bike up. It'll still be slow, just less slow. lol. It's a personal decision based on your financial resources and what's important to you. I do think it's wise to grab the low hanging fruit first like a set of pipes and see if that's enough for you. You can always add more mods later as you get bored.

And no doubt, a cammed bike will sound great, which to me personally, almost put me over the edge. But not quite.

Each time when I listen to how good my old cammed Evo sounds compared to my sterile Twin Cam...I get a little closer to buying cams.

Here see for yourself.

 

When I bought my 05 FatBoy it had 10,000 miles on it. The bike had V&H Longshots, Stage 1 aire cleaner and a Stage 1 Harley download on it when I got it. The bike ran and sounded good. Last winter at a little over 14000 miles I decided to change out the tensioners. I used the following parts, HD conversion Cam plate kit, Andrews 48H cams,V-Thunder lifters, HD quickie push rod kit. And PCIII Usb pre mapped from Fuel Moto. total investment was around $1100.00

The bike when done ran amazing. It has so much more power and torque where I ride. I get compliments all day long on how well it runs.

T

 

Great idea on the "rebuild thread". I think I'll do that once I finish getting everything torn down and an inventory of what I need. Will post the link when it happens, most likely within the next week.