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Drive ratio upgrade HOW TO: Belt Pulleys, Primary sprockets, improve TQ up to 13%

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  #21  
Old 01-20-2016, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by H-D Nomad
Hey guys, after reading through the thread I can't assertain weather a rear pulley from a sportster will fit my 2016 Fatboy? Obviously the breakout is much wider on the rear than the fatty. Could someone please advise as I sure would like to pick up a bit more response/power for not a lot of hassle. Thanks
sure- from what I see there is no reason it will not fit. you have a softail like the rest of us, uses the same 66t pulley. go online and lookup a Performance Machine billet pulley for your bike- you'll see that they have one pulley that covers all softails from like 2008 and up

example of a 66t PM pulley:
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/p...tail-2008-2015
Fits:

Breakout FXSB 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Fat Boy FLSTF/I 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Fat Boy Lo FLSTFB 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Fat Boy S FLSTFBS 2016

Heritage Softail Classic FLSTC/I 2008–2016
Rocker C FXCWC 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Rocker FXCW 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Softail Blackline FXS 2011, 2012, 2013

Softail Custom/Nostalgia/Special/Deluxe FLSTN/I 2008–2016
Softail Slim FLS 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Softail Slim S FLSS 2016

order the sportster pulley and the required shorter bolts as listed in post #2. show us some pics when you are done

Note- I believe the reason the same pulley fits all newer softails or dynas is because the placement of the pulley hub on the wheel is in the same relative location. For example, my Breakout wheel which is stupid wide, has the pulley hub mount in the same transmission alignment location as your narrower fatboy wheel. It is always set up on each model so the wheel hub mount for the pulley is in the general same line with the trans. HD does not seem to rely on different offset pulleys for this which is good for us.
 

Last edited by LA_Dog; 01-20-2016 at 12:53 PM.
  #22  
Old 01-20-2016, 01:40 PM
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Thank you for the great reply LA_Dog! It's deffinately something I'm going to be looking into. Was just changing the the rear pulley a noticeable improvement? My fatboy is the 'S' model with full stage one so 3% more torque should be noticable.
I can't see myself changing the front pulley anytime soon though.
Thanks once again.
 
  #23  
Old 01-20-2016, 02:38 PM
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Nomad- yes this will be one of the biggest improvements you can make to the bike in terms of performance. before 2006, HD used to ship bikes with more optimal belt pulley ratios for speed and power. after 2006 they got smacked down by stricter air quality, epa, noise regs, and other BS. so the gearing and tune on the ECM were made for quieter more economy riding. I'll buy a Prius if I want that, thanks.

So all we are undoing here is the too tall gearing BS. this upgrade will benefit future performance mods such as cams, head work, etc. You'll pay more for cams or an exhaust and not gain as much immediate overall benefit as doing the 30/68 or ideally, 30/70 pulley upgrades. That is adding 9.7% and 13% greater TQ to your rear wheel. what's not to love about that?

I just went for a 20 mile ride today - through the canyons and some freeway. freaking excellent. 3rd is much more of a wide range gear now in town and canyons. 6th is still smooth. when I twist the throttle it is like "right now" instead of "thinking about it".

Granted- the biggest noticeable change difference will be going 30/68 from the stock 32/66. completing this with the 70 on the rear gave me the perfect added bit. So I would say that 30/70 is optimal for a performance-oriented rider and town bike.

68 only on the rear, with the stock 32 front, will give you a little bit- it's not a huge diff, but it is a step in the right direction. the key is doing the 30t front pulley.

gratuitous photo from today:

 

Last edited by LA_Dog; 01-20-2016 at 02:41 PM.
  #24  
Old 01-20-2016, 03:24 PM
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Thank you for all the info man, much appreciated.
BTW sweet bike you have there and great scenery, can't wait for the spring to arrive here and get out riding again without freezing bits off.
Take care and ride safe.
 
  #25  
Old 01-20-2016, 05:22 PM
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It's really no different to people changing the sprockets on chain driven motorcycles to their liking, weather that be for track use or trail riding etc. I myself have done this many times to improve response and it really does make a difference as its the overall gearing that's changed. I've never changed sprockets on a Harley though hence my interest and weather just changing the rear would make that much of a change. I think LA_Dogs posts have explained it very well and I say cheers for taking the time to write it up and answer my questions.
 
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Old 01-20-2016, 05:51 PM
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You get more torque/response in every gear as its your overall gearing that has changed. Your 13% increase will be felt weather your in 1st 3rd or 6th. Its also seems that your rpms are only affected by a few hundred or so, so the road speed at which you change gear if your hitting the rev limiter wouldnt change by very much at all. I think changing ratios like this is more for in gear drive and feel once the bike is upto speed.
 
  #27  
Old 01-20-2016, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by H-D Nomad
You get more torque/response in every gear as its your overall gearing that has changed. Your 13% increase will be felt weather your in 1st 3rd or 6th.
Drop the gearing 13% to get a 13% increase in rear-wheel torque, and you'll also get a 13% reduction in rear wheel speed. Horsepower at the rear wheel will be about the same either way.
 
  #28  
Old 01-20-2016, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by H-D Nomad
It's really no different to people changing the sprockets on chain driven motorcycles to their liking, weather that be for track use or trail riding etc. I myself have done this many times to improve response and it really does make a difference as its the overall gearing that's changed. I've never changed sprockets on a Harley though hence my interest and weather just changing the rear would make that much of a change. I think LA_Dogs posts have explained it very well and I say cheers for taking the time to write it up and answer my questions.
yeh that's pretty much it- same result on the HD as on a dirt bike with changing the final drive pulleys.
 
  #29  
Old 01-21-2016, 12:59 AM
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I have added very specific, accurate gear ratio / rpm / mph data graphs to my posts 1,2,3,4 on page 1. these charts show the exact expected rpm, mph, shift points, rpm drop at shift, etc for each type of rear wheel and trans pulley change (32/68, 30/68, 30/70) including the stock 32/66 pulley set for comparison. this will eliminate any guessing on anyone's part with these changes. This info applies to all current Softail /Dyna model bikes 2007-up. For these charts all you would do is edit your tire size. Pulleys and trans are same. charts courtesy of http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/

To summarize why this is a good upgrade: Speed, it is all about the gear ratio.

By shortening your overall drive ratio with a smaller front pulley and/or a larger rear pulley, you are gaining the ability to go faster quicker. You are applying more torque force to the rear wheel, and typically you can keep your shifts in the optimal power band range easier. You'll also be able to hold your gears lower in the rom range without bogging, and you end up not needing to downshift as often. What you give up is some top speed in each gear before hitting redline. But it's not much.

Will these pulley changes affect my mileage?

All things being equal, going to a higher gear ratio will drop your MPGs because you will have higher cruising RPMs for a given speed- But! this is remedied by shifting to the next gear up and getting used to the new range of your gears. Only stopping point is 6th, of course, and with a 30/70 pulley upgrade, you'd be about 300rpm higher than stock doing 70mph. going 30/68 pulleys, maybe 200 rpm higher. More than likely though, you'll have so much fun with your new snappy acceleration that you might ride more aggressively, and further decrease mileage- which is most likely the case. But hey, it's a bike. Have fun with it and be glad you're not driving a car.

Am I going to get "torque dips" on shift etc by changing pulley sizes and final drive ratios?

No, and this is wild conjecture without engine specific information to back it up. As long as you keep the engine in the optimal torque band when shifting, you'll keep going along just fine.
We know the stock 103" TQ max is about 3000 rpm. HP max is about 4500 rpm. So keep your shifts at 3600-3800 rpm range, keeping into consideration the amount of rpm that will drop when hitting next gear up. The charts I posted show this data. the biggest TQ dip you'll experience is shifting at too low of an rpm so the next gear up's engaged rpm is well below the TQ max area. For example, shifting 1st to 2nd, rpms will drop about 1000 rpm engaging 2nd. So shift at 4k rpm in 1st and 2nd engages at 3k rpm, right at the max TQ point. Or, shift at 3500 rpm but blip the throttle a bit before engaging 2nd to pull rpm's up. With practice you can learn to do that quite seamlessly.

Facts and hard numbers are good. This should be of help.

See chart below which compares ratio, rpm, mph, shift points, max hp/tq of each gear speed, of the stock 32/66 pulleys (black numbers) versus the full upgrade of 30/70 pulleys (red and green data). So you lose 20mph top end in 6th by going to 30/70 pulleys. But you get to 130mph much much faster. Do you really need to go 150+ with the stock 32/66 pulleys? (it's not possible anyway / not enough hp/tq.) This should lay it out very clearly that even at 30/70, you have a very streetable bike with no downsides, and these bikes are coming geared way too tall on the final drive from the factory. I'm sure most of you will do the 30/68 combo and that is almost as good as the 30/70.

Chart - 32/66 stock pulleys (black numbers) vs. 30/70 upgrade pulleys (red, green numbers)
- charts courtesy of http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/

 

Last edited by LA_Dog; 01-21-2016 at 01:23 AM.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2016, 02:17 PM
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Sorry, double post.
 

Last edited by Warp Factor; 01-21-2016 at 03:14 PM.


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