Stage 1 download needed twice?
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 146
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From: Valdosta, GA
Stage 1 download needed twice?
I was wondering when I bought my bike 2 years ago I had RC Components slip on exhaust put on and a stage 1 download done which I guess really wasn't needed at that time.
I added a stage 1 air cleaner and dealer said I would need another download done since I added that.
My understanding is the download just raises the rev limiter. So does adding the air cleaner lower that and it needs to be raised again or is dealer just trying to sell me something?
I added a stage 1 air cleaner and dealer said I would need another download done since I added that.
My understanding is the download just raises the rev limiter. So does adding the air cleaner lower that and it needs to be raised again or is dealer just trying to sell me something?
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,471
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
Here's what you need to know on a "Stage 1 download" from your H-D dealer: Before you added a freer flowing a/c and exhaust, your bike was EPA compliant. After you added those components it probably runs too lean. The dealer download does richen it up a bit, but it also brings it back into EPA compliance.
So, it would be to your advantage, performance-wise, to get the SEPST and have the bike tuned correctly. You'll get much better performance overall. There are other tuner modules that can also do anything you need. Your preference, your choice.
Just find a tech who knows what he's doing.
Last edited by IdahoHacker; May 29, 2016 at 08:52 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
Likes: 2,252
From: wet coast BC
I find it amusing that dealers are still offering the download, never mind twice.
OP, the download is more than an increase in rpm limit, it is the base tune included with the HD tuner. The download is a waste of money as it is a catch all and is not tuned for the bike. The timing is advanced and some VE adjustment. as said it is meant to compensate for a free flowing air cleaner and exhaust upgrade.
BUT it is not a tune for optimum performance.
OP, the download is more than an increase in rpm limit, it is the base tune included with the HD tuner. The download is a waste of money as it is a catch all and is not tuned for the bike. The timing is advanced and some VE adjustment. as said it is meant to compensate for a free flowing air cleaner and exhaust upgrade.
BUT it is not a tune for optimum performance.
Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 145,895
Likes: 821
From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..
I was wondering when I bought my bike 2 years ago I had RC Components slip on exhaust put on and a stage 1 download done which I guess really wasn't needed at that time.
I added a stage 1 air cleaner and dealer said I would need another download done since I added that.
My understanding is the download just raises the rev limiter.
The Jury of members in here is still out...Some say YES Some say NO
So does adding the air cleaner lower that and it needs to be raised again or is dealer just trying to sell me something?
I added a stage 1 air cleaner and dealer said I would need another download done since I added that.
My understanding is the download just raises the rev limiter.
The Jury of members in here is still out...Some say YES Some say NO
So does adding the air cleaner lower that and it needs to be raised again or is dealer just trying to sell me something?
Yrs back, the HD download was next to worthless,, The newer ones (I don't know the yr when they improved them-- guessing around 10 or 11 )are a little better But,, Still they are nothing like a good fully adjustable tuner, either with or without a dyno.
back in 07 the old SERT was about the best around, but you did have to have it Dynoed... Which is what I did at my 1K servive. when I did the Stg1.. then at 15k I added the And's 26' and they Tweaked the tune...
in the 52k miles and 9yrs I had the bike its ran perfectly and flawlessly, Except when the gas line got a leak in it and had to be replaced.
I've been totally happy with the SERT and I'll add since then my Son has had three new bikes and he had the newer SEPST installed in all three along with Cams and SE/AC and dyno before he rode them home.. Neither one of us have ever had a problem when MoCo tuner..
But... today their are several really good tuners made.. If I was to get another new bike, I am not sure what I'd get... Thinking I'd prob still lean toward the SEPST and dyno... just me...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,195
Likes: 11,310
From: San Diego, CA
I was wondering when I bought my bike 2 years ago I had RC Components slip on exhaust put on and a stage 1 download done which I guess really wasn't needed at that time.
I added a stage 1 air cleaner and dealer said I would need another download done since I added that.
My understanding is the download just raises the rev limiter. So does adding the air cleaner lower that and it needs to be raised again or is dealer just trying to sell me something?
I added a stage 1 air cleaner and dealer said I would need another download done since I added that.
My understanding is the download just raises the rev limiter. So does adding the air cleaner lower that and it needs to be raised again or is dealer just trying to sell me something?
The HD downloads, as many have mentioned, change the tune in the ECM to include air fuel ratios, possibly timing, and the higher rev limit.
HD sells downloads for:
Stage I- free flowing air cleaner & free flowing exhaust
Stage II- stage I, plus cams
Stage III- stage II, plus bump in displacement.
Stage IV- stage III, plus free flowing heads.
Unless you are progressing through the stages, there is no reason for another download. Barring an ECM failure, there is no reason to reflash the same download.
As also mentioned, while the HD downloads will "help" when modding your engine, they are woefully inadequate if you want your engine to run near it's best.... they are EPA compliant and will be on the lean side...
There are many flash tuners, with download tunes from from excellent shops. They are far better than the HD tunes, if you want to just download a tune. If you want every last bit of performance, nothing compares to a dyno tune, by a competent tuner. Sometimes finding a competent tuner isn't all that easy.
I went with a PowerVision from Fuelmoto for my stage I bike and stage II bike. Both bikes originally had an HD download for their given stage. The FuelMoto tunes ran far better than the HD downloads. I ran a couple basic auto tune sessions, and both bikes are running excellent.... I don't feel the need for a dyno tune.
Good luck with your mods....
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 941
From: Illinois
HD Stage I raises the rev limit from 5,500 to 6,200 which is a stupid thing to do with a long stroke push rod engine. No wonder they they have cam tensioner trouble.
The other thing it does is advance the spark some. That's also great for increasing the possibility of engine knock.
It does not do any thing with the AFR of 14.6 to one. So it keeps the lean burn engine running hot.
As others posted do a real fuel programmer. The real truth is that both the high flow exhaust and breather can be done without a HD tune as the ECM will correct the leaner AFR that either or both do back to 14.6 to !. That standard is in the ECM and it checks and adjusts back to it withing 30 minutes to 2 hours of running at the longest.
The other thing it does is advance the spark some. That's also great for increasing the possibility of engine knock.
It does not do any thing with the AFR of 14.6 to one. So it keeps the lean burn engine running hot.
As others posted do a real fuel programmer. The real truth is that both the high flow exhaust and breather can be done without a HD tune as the ECM will correct the leaner AFR that either or both do back to 14.6 to !. That standard is in the ECM and it checks and adjusts back to it withing 30 minutes to 2 hours of running at the longest.
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