Softail Motor Question
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 489
Likes: 1
From: Upstate NY
Softail Motor Question
Thinking of moving to a softail after some issues with my Dyna. Hopefully yall can share some knowledge....
Backstory:
My 2012 Dyna motor crapped the bed at 21,000 miles. Bad timing chain problem, I didn't think this was a problem for the newer bikes, but it still is, so I got F'ed.
My other problem with the Dyna was the bad seat vibrations. On long road trips I would need to take a break every hour or hour and a half max. This was with a very nice Mustang seat. I loved the Wide Glide otherwise and if I could fix those two problems I would love to get one again.
So my questions are:
A - What motors should I look for to avoid this cam tensioner problem? Do I have to go back to the Evo motor bikes(if so what model years should I look for)?? Is there an S&S motor I could put into an older, higher mileage bike, that would be very reliable(S&S Evo motor or maybe some 3rd party kit that allows one to install a new S&S Twin Cam in an Evo bike)??? Again looking for no seat vibrations.
-- What other solutions are there to the cam tension problems I could consider on a newer bike?
B - Do the balanced motors on the Softails make it a much smother ride? Evos rougher or smother than TCs? What engine do they put in the touring bikes? I Really want a bike I can ride a full day on and not be bothered by the vibrations. Obviously ANY seat you sit in will bother you after a while, that's expected, but the vibrations that my dyna put into my seat was just so bad with time.
Backstory:
My 2012 Dyna motor crapped the bed at 21,000 miles. Bad timing chain problem, I didn't think this was a problem for the newer bikes, but it still is, so I got F'ed.
My other problem with the Dyna was the bad seat vibrations. On long road trips I would need to take a break every hour or hour and a half max. This was with a very nice Mustang seat. I loved the Wide Glide otherwise and if I could fix those two problems I would love to get one again.
So my questions are:
A - What motors should I look for to avoid this cam tensioner problem? Do I have to go back to the Evo motor bikes(if so what model years should I look for)?? Is there an S&S motor I could put into an older, higher mileage bike, that would be very reliable(S&S Evo motor or maybe some 3rd party kit that allows one to install a new S&S Twin Cam in an Evo bike)??? Again looking for no seat vibrations.
-- What other solutions are there to the cam tension problems I could consider on a newer bike?
B - Do the balanced motors on the Softails make it a much smother ride? Evos rougher or smother than TCs? What engine do they put in the touring bikes? I Really want a bike I can ride a full day on and not be bothered by the vibrations. Obviously ANY seat you sit in will bother you after a while, that's expected, but the vibrations that my dyna put into my seat was just so bad with time.
Last edited by thoner7; Oct 21, 2016 at 10:27 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 604
Likes: 22
I'm thinking you had a bad motor mount on your Dyna. Only had one and it was the riding position more than anything that made me sell it. Arthritis in the knees. If you want to get rid of the cam tensioner problem try a gear drive cam. Before you do this it would be a good idea to have the bottom end trued by someone like Darkhorse because the gear drive isn't as forgiving of pinion shafts with bad run out as the chain drive. The twin cams are about as reliable as you can get and in the softail platform with the counter balancers is smooth as a babys butt up to 80 to 85mph. You pick up a bit of vib after that but I don't spend much time there and after years of riding shovelheads it isn't up to much. For example I have an 08 Crossbones that has become a favorite of the 4 bikes I have. It's been bored to a 107 with 10.5 mahle pistons by Suburban motors; the heads were done by Baisley; the bottom end was trued and balanced by Darkhorse; I used a TB by HPI in a 55mm size; Woods cams; S&S lifters and roller rockers; and it's so smooth if you didn't have the pipes singing to me I would think I was coasting. I'm not worrying about anything when I'm traveling except gas stops and pee breaks. Costs to get there but peace of mind is worth a lot.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 489
Likes: 1
From: Upstate NY
I have read a little about the S&S kit you talk about in that first sentence, but what do you mean in the second? What is the cost of something like that? Is it something a local indy shop could do?
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 533
Likes: 57
From: Fredericksburg, VA
The smoothest bikes I owned were the '92 FXR and '80 FLT. The FXR was probably the smoother of the two. The riding position was better on the FLT (once I customized the bike to look like a RoadKing with big wide beach bars, anyway... When I bought it, it had apes and an awful paint job, no fairing, it was a mutt looking thing)
My '14 softail still vibrates. But even with the stock Slim seat, that everyone complains about, I can ride for hours without thinking about it. I imagine, however, that the Softails in general vibrate more than Dynas. Aren't the Dynas rubber mounted these days?
Have you gotten rid of the Dyna? Might just look at getting a new motor for it. yeah?
My '14 softail still vibrates. But even with the stock Slim seat, that everyone complains about, I can ride for hours without thinking about it. I imagine, however, that the Softails in general vibrate more than Dynas. Aren't the Dynas rubber mounted these days?
Have you gotten rid of the Dyna? Might just look at getting a new motor for it. yeah?
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 489
Likes: 1
From: Upstate NY
Yea the Dynas are rubber mounted but there are problems with the mounts and it's honestly a much rougher ride than my sportster.
The he dyna is long gone too bye.
i like the look of the slim, how does it handle?
The he dyna is long gone too bye.
i like the look of the slim, how does it handle?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 284
From: Fort Worth, TX
'07 and later Softails will have the hydraulic cam chain tensioners (significantly less problematic than the mechanical ones), they will be counterbalanced and have six-speed transmissions. From there you can get either 96" or 103" depending on what year you go with. The counterbalanced Twin Cam Softail is much smoother than rubber mounted Twin Cams and rigid mounted, non-balanced Evo engines (I know this from experience, I have an Evo Softail, a Twin Cam Softail and a Bagger with a rubber mounted engine. My Dad has the same and we ride each others bikes all the time) I would steer clear of an Evo or an Evo with an S&S in it. If you think your Dyna shook too much (Motor mount issues) you will be miserable on an Evo...
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 189
Likes: 10
From: Frederick, MD
I have a 1999 FXDX and I am running .590 lift gear driven cams. Due to the level of work done on the motor it shakes like a paint mixer with rocks in it at idle, but smoothes out perfectly as I roll on the throttle. The rubber mounts on Dynas really work well.
I also have a 2015 FLSTF and at idle the counterbalanced motor is more like a sewing machine, but as I roll on the throttle the vibes pick up slightly.
Both are nice bikes but both are a completely different riding experience. I would say the Dyna is less "buzzy" on the road, but at idle it looks like it is going to shake apart.
The Fat Boy is super smooth at idle and builds into very mild vibes at speed.
I hope this helps.
I also have a 2015 FLSTF and at idle the counterbalanced motor is more like a sewing machine, but as I roll on the throttle the vibes pick up slightly.
Both are nice bikes but both are a completely different riding experience. I would say the Dyna is less "buzzy" on the road, but at idle it looks like it is going to shake apart.
The Fat Boy is super smooth at idle and builds into very mild vibes at speed.
I hope this helps.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 604
Likes: 22
Getting the rotating assembly trued and Balanced to the pistons you will be using gives you a smooth engine. The pinion side of your motor dives the cams. Tolerances on the twin cam Harleys leave a lot to be desired and I believe that's why they went with the chain drive to get away with this. The runout on my lower end when it came back from Darkhorse was .0004 which is a whole zero better than what I started with and great for the gear drive cams. The cost also included putting Timken bearings on the drive side(much more stable and stonger) and was like $2600 and the best money I ever spent on the bike because it is soooo smooth. You could have your local indy install the cams I suppose but I would leave it up to Darkhorse for the whole bottom at least and let your indy do the top end. If it's a bike you're going to keep,make it right and take care of it, then 100k is not out of the question.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,584
Likes: 520
From: VA
The difference I have found between the Softail and the Dyna is where they vibrate. The Softail is really smooth until about 3200 or so rpm's. Above that it can get a little buzzy, but some are worse than others. The Dyna's vibrate around 2500 to 3000 which is where you spend most of your time riding. The 103 Dyna's vibrate worse than the 88's. Never had a 96. The worst vibrating new HD I ever rode was a 103 Dyna Switchback. It was just awful and a common complaint with the Switchback. Not sure if that helped kill the Switchback or not but there were a LOT of complaints about it. The vibration was related to the mounting of the the 2 into 1 exhaust.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,865
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From: The 1980's
I second the gear drive cam suggestion. Did it probably 12 years ago on my 2002 Fat Boy and have never looked back. Never a hiccup, never a problem in all those years.
Speed's Performance Plus dyno'd and checked the bike over at Myrtle Beach bike week in 2006. They told me that it was pretty much bulletproof with the gear drives.
Speed's Performance Plus dyno'd and checked the bike over at Myrtle Beach bike week in 2006. They told me that it was pretty much bulletproof with the gear drives.