Tuning question
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Tuning question
Just throwing this out there. As we know the 07s run very lean. After reading countless articles on different tuners one thing seems to be bothering me. Read somewhere that with stock o2 sensors the range is really small, favouring 14.8 range. If a remap is done, won't these mothers try to retune the fuel mixture back to that leanrange in time? Some tuners use their own o2 sensors, probably for that reason. Second question in that regard is that if differnet o2 sensors were installed with a wider range, say 13-14 would it not allow the stock ecm to remap for a better mixture and self tune. Could it possibly be that simple and cheap to richen the 07 mixture. What am I missing here?
Ron
Ron
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From: Rochester, NY
RE: Tuning question
Would that it did work like that. Unfortunatly what your thinking of doesn't exist in the Delphi system that's installed in HD bikes. The O2 sensors are there just to tell the ECM that its adding the right amount of fuel.
In the HD system its used as akind of Go-NoGo gauge it can't adjust the maps to conform to the right ratio. If the AF ratio is within specs all is good. If not it triggers theECM to trun on the Engine Check light and put a code out to tell you if its too high or too low.
Your probably thinking of how its used in a lot of cars. In them it can adjust the ratio within a pre programed range and is always trying to match the fuel added to the amount of air it reads is going into the engine with the MAS sensor. The HD Delphi system uses the older MAP system that 'guesses' the amount of incomming air with no provision for wider latitude in makingon the fly AF ratio adjustments.
In the HD system its used as akind of Go-NoGo gauge it can't adjust the maps to conform to the right ratio. If the AF ratio is within specs all is good. If not it triggers theECM to trun on the Engine Check light and put a code out to tell you if its too high or too low.
Your probably thinking of how its used in a lot of cars. In them it can adjust the ratio within a pre programed range and is always trying to match the fuel added to the amount of air it reads is going into the engine with the MAS sensor. The HD Delphi system uses the older MAP system that 'guesses' the amount of incomming air with no provision for wider latitude in makingon the fly AF ratio adjustments.
Thread Starter
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Banned
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Rochester, NY
RE: Tuning question
When I first heard of the system I was hoping it would be exactly the way you described. But alas HD in its infinate 'wisdom' has yet to go the extra mile to bring the FI system up to common automotive standards.
In the mean time were stuck with what we have or we can upgrade to what is in my personal opinion the best availabe sytem out there, the Thunder Max with Auto Tune. It DOES use wide band O2 sensors and will adjust the AF ratios up to 50% plus or minus from the map installed to obtain the proper AF ratio at all times.
In the mean time were stuck with what we have or we can upgrade to what is in my personal opinion the best availabe sytem out there, the Thunder Max with Auto Tune. It DOES use wide band O2 sensors and will adjust the AF ratios up to 50% plus or minus from the map installed to obtain the proper AF ratio at all times.
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: Tuning question
Citoriplus: That may very well be but I'm still in the just spent 25k on my bike and have to spend another 1k to make it run as should. Just don't sit well with me. I know , get over it. I probably will some day but it's not today.
Ron
Ron
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Sierra Nevada's
RE: Tuning question
ORIGINAL: rbabos
Just throwing this out there. As we know the 07s run very lean. After reading countless articles on different tuners one thing seems to be bothering me. Read somewhere that with stock o2 sensors the range is really small, favouring 14.8 range. If a remap is done, won't these mothers try to retune the fuel mixture back to that leanrange in time? Some tuners use their own o2 sensors, probably for that reason. Second question in that regard is that if differnet o2 sensors were installed with a wider range, say 13-14 would it not allow the stock ecm to remap for a better mixture and self tune. Could it possibly be that simple and cheap to richen the 07 mixture. What am I missing here?
Ron
Just throwing this out there. As we know the 07s run very lean. After reading countless articles on different tuners one thing seems to be bothering me. Read somewhere that with stock o2 sensors the range is really small, favouring 14.8 range. If a remap is done, won't these mothers try to retune the fuel mixture back to that leanrange in time? Some tuners use their own o2 sensors, probably for that reason. Second question in that regard is that if differnet o2 sensors were installed with a wider range, say 13-14 would it not allow the stock ecm to remap for a better mixture and self tune. Could it possibly be that simple and cheap to richen the 07 mixture. What am I missing here?
Ron
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May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
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From: Rochester, NY
RE: Tuning question
ORIGINAL: rbabos
Citoriplus: That may very well be but I'm still in the just spent 25k on my bike and have to spend another 1k to make it run as should. Just don't sit well with me. I know , get over it. I probably will some day but it's not today.
Ron
Citoriplus: That may very well be but I'm still in the just spent 25k on my bike and have to spend another 1k to make it run as should. Just don't sit well with me. I know , get over it. I probably will some day but it's not today.
Ron
Oh for the good old days of loud pipes and S&S carbs. At least with them you didn't need an engineering degree in computer programing & design to figure them out.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: Tuning question
Citoriplusid some research on the Thundermax to see if you were full of chitSo far, you're not. It seems to be one of the better ones. I like the plug and play and the o2 ranges. It seems like it can grow with future updates, which is a plus. Will it retain all the present Harley functions including 6th gear indicator?
Ron
id some research on the Thundermax to see if you were full of chitSo far, you're not. It seems to be one of the better ones. I like the plug and play and the o2 ranges. It seems like it can grow with future updates, which is a plus. Will it retain all the present Harley functions including 6th gear indicator?Ron
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From:
RE: Tuning question
Yes it maintains everything that I have noticed. Happy here with Thundermax also. Takes a little patience for the tunes to take full effect, but to fix this you have to just ride so thats not bad at all!
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