cam chain tensioners
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,139
Likes: 11,206
From: San Diego, CA
I just spoke to an indie shop about this yesterday. The whole shebang (including upgraded oil pump) was north of $2K! I'm waiting for his estimates with & w/o the oil pump, bearings, etc. and still may have to wait to do this. 26k miles on mine so it makes me a little nervous riding it - won't take any long trips on it though.
You don't need a new oil pump, and the inner cam bearings are pretty cheap....
There are basically 4 ways to address the cam tensioners.... from $ to $$$$.
1) Just change out the spring cam tensioner pads.... You keep your OEM cams, pushrods, cam plate, oil pump, etc, etc.... You just change the tensioner pads. That's like $100 in parts and the rest in labor... Your geographical area will dictate labor rate, but that job should be well under $1K...
2) The Screamin' Eagle cam plate upgrade, That keeps your OEM cams, pump, etc... but changes the cam plate to one that will fit the early twin cams, yet uses the '07+ hydraulic cam tensioners. That costs about $600 in parts, the rest in labor. Probably about $1200ish. The problem with this fix is that although you have hydraulic cam tensioners, you only get the roller chain on the front sprockets. It keeps the old link chain between the cam sprockets. Some believe the link style chains contribute to the rapid cam tensioner wear.
3) You upgrade to the '07 cam plate, tensioners, oil pump, chains, gears, and need to add conversion cams. I like this "fix" as IMHO it is the best bang for the buck, but it is more $$$. When I did mine about 4 years ago, the parts were $1K. That didn't include a new tune for the new cams... I suspect this is the "fix" your indy is talking about, because with the '07+ cam plate, you need the '07+ oil pump too.
4) Switching to gear drive cams. This is the best, but most expensive.... Not all engines will "qualify" for gear drive cams... Your engine needs to have .004" run out or less for these to work... most like to see .003" or less run out before using gear drives... This is going to be a $2.5k+ "fix" in today's market I would guess...
IMHO..... If you don't put a lot of miles on the bike, just changing the cam tensioner pads, especially if you use Cyco brand tensioner pads (better than OEM), will give you peace of mind, and at least another 25-30K miles before the need to check them again. Many have gotten 50K+ on the Cyco pads with no issues. The Indie can change the inner cam bearings at the same time. The Toyo (formerly Torrington) B-148 inner cam bearings are like $10 each... Should be less than an hour, once the cam plate is out, to swap the bearings.. With the special tool, I've done it in 30-40 min, and I'm not a professional tech.
So ask your Indie for a comprehensive parts list for his estimate, then ask him how much to just change the tensioner pads and inner cam bearings only...
Two other notes:
Many techs like to cut the pushrods and install adjustable pushrods. They say it saves money, but the adjustable pushrods cost $200... I think they just don't like the hassle of pulling the fuel tank and removing the rockers, to pull and reuse the OEM pushrods... I've gone through the top on a few cam chest jobs, I suspect the labor cost would be about the same as the coast of the adjustable pushrods.... but labor charges are climbing... So I can't say for sure..
Also, you have a 2002 softail so you have the #18538-99B lifters, referred to as the "B" lifters. They are a pretty good lifter. At your mileage, there is no reason to change them. If you had the later #18538-99C lifters introduced around 2010, referred to as the "C" lifters, I would suggest changing them while you were in the cam chest... The "C" lifters are substandard in many people's opinion... But your "B" lifters should be good to well north of 50K miles...
I hope some of this info helps you with your decision... good luck..
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 5, 2022 at 09:28 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,523
Likes: 6,406
From: Honah Lee
Soak them in PB blaster for a few days. Keep them wet.
I hit them with a small impact. If they are really rusty, heat them with a little map gas torch.
Replace only with OEM real Harley hardened lock nuts if they exist. If they break, the stud breaks flush with the head. That's not an amateur fix.
Studs are coated. Mine weren't rusty. I did not need to remove exhaust to get my cam cover off.
However, I have had it off to replace some aftermarket garbage the original owner had installed by the dealership.
I replaced the crush gaskets and those locknuts don't require much torque. Only 60-80 IN/LB. And there is a two part sequence and order.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; Aug 6, 2022 at 07:33 AM.
Novice
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Likes: 16
From: Jax, FL
Thank you @hattitude for the great words. After pondering this over the weekend, I recalled that I was told that mine had an upgraded cam put into it. I'm going to see if the local HD stealer has a maintenance record of that and try a couple more shops where I think it might have had service done. I may also get a new seal and just pop the cover open and inspect the internals - maybe it was upgraded and I don't need to do anything.
Raz
Raz
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 620
From: Pittsburgh suburb
Easy way to check is to lift a push rod tube cover - most go with adjustable push rods, check as you said & maybe you`re lucky. taking the cover over is still a good idea. you may not have to take the exhaust completely off, I just did an 02 RKC & the pipe was fused pretty good but the exhaust bolts came off allowing me to move the pipe enough out of the way to get into the Cam.
replacing the shoes will be the least expensive item - but if you dont have the tools to do it............that will add to the fix.
Good luck & keep us posted
PS - Hattitude..... nice write up sir!
replacing the shoes will be the least expensive item - but if you dont have the tools to do it............that will add to the fix.
Good luck & keep us posted
PS - Hattitude..... nice write up sir!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,415
Likes: 1,120
From: USA
Your bike has the '07+ cam plate with the hydraulic tensioners and o-ring, roller chains from the factory. That '07+ cam plate set-up is hydraulic lasting much longer than the older spring cam tensioners with silent, link chains... 100k miles on that set-up is a frequent accomplishment...
Never a bad idea to check them out at 60K miles... The newer style cam plate, tensioners, etc are much easier to work on, and change out than the previous versions.... If you can follow the HD Service Manual and take apart the cam chest, you are more than capable enough to replace the cam tensioners..
The cams are NOT pressed into the cam plate like the older versions, should you want to remove them and/or replace them. The newer cam plate/tensioners DO NOT need a special tool to remove the tensioners from the cam plate while leaving the cams in place.
If you are going into the cam plate, you will need a new cam cover gasket (#25244-99A). Although many, myself included, have reused that gasket before... It's just not worth the risk that it might leak, due to the time it takes to replace it... You'll also need new exhaust gaskets, as I always remove the exhaust system to get the best access and room when working on in the cam chest...
If you just open it up, and see the front tensioner looks real good, then button it back up... That's all you'll need... Oh yeah, and new motor oil.
Should you decide to take it all apart, then be aware that the push rods will need to be removed....
You can do that by going in through the top of the motor and reuse the OEM pushrods (for OEM cam and some new cams)... It's easy, just takes a little more time... Then you will need two new rocker cover gaskets #17386-99A and two new rocker base o-rings #11270 (but they can easily be reused if they look good). You can actually do it from the top, without messing with the pushrod tubes...
Or you can open up the pushrod tubes, cut the old pushrods with a bolt cutter, and ten put it back together with adjustable pushrods. You don't need to remove the tank or rocker covers, but you'll need to remove the pushrod tubes. Your pushrod tube O-rings should be OK, but if damaged there are 3 different O-rings; Top #11293, middle #11132A, and bottom #11145A.
With the entire cam plate removed, you will also need, in addition to the above, the main oil pump o-ring #11293 (same as upper pushrod tube, most people don't realize that), and the two smaller o-rings behind the cam plate #11301.
If you need to replace the tensioner pads, you can buy aftermarket tensioner pads from several sources that are ok, such as the Fueling hydraulic tensioner replacements. Fuelings come mounted on the piston for about $30 for both. If you opt for new tensioners to include the base, piston, spring, and new pads from Harley (#39968-06 for primary chain (outside of the cam plate) and #39969-06 for secondary chain (inside of the cam plate) they are about $45 each.
If you go that far, I would change out the inner cam bearings to Koyo (formerly Torrington) B-168 needle bearings. They cost about $12 each.. The special cam bearing tool will cost around $100, depending on make... it is pretty easy and almost failsafe to use... However, many have changed them out with the right size blind bearing puller and bearing driver... But if you don't have them in your tool box, and are inexperienced with their use.. I would buy the special tool...
It is essential, IMHO, to get the HD 2008 Softail factory service manual for this job, or any job you want to do on the bike you have not done before. You can get a brand new one #99482-08, from Surdyke HD Online. They also sell some used ones on eBay, but be wary... some of the used ones, and several of the "new" ones on eBay are selling for more than you can buy it new from Surdyke...
I have changed out 6 cam chests, and I have had the book open, and read it each time.... I don't do this enough to remember all the steps off the top of my head. If you have basic to moderate wrenching skills/experience, with the factory manual, and after watching a couple of the better cam chest videos (FuelMoto has a couple as does S&S), you'll have no problem...
I believe I've covered quite a bit of the process. I'm sure others will chime in with anything I forgot...
Don't let the job intimidate you.. it's not really hard, just time consuming...
Good luck and have fun...!!
Here's a couple pics of the cam chest opened up:
On my 2001 Springer, this is when I opened up the cam chest to inspect the spring tensioners:
This is everything removed, for new tensioners, and inner cam bearings. I went in through the rocker boxes, and reused OEM pushrods:
On my 2003 Heritage, I got carried away and went big bore, head work, new cams, and the full S&S cam plate upgrade.....
I have the sickness.....
Never a bad idea to check them out at 60K miles... The newer style cam plate, tensioners, etc are much easier to work on, and change out than the previous versions.... If you can follow the HD Service Manual and take apart the cam chest, you are more than capable enough to replace the cam tensioners..
The cams are NOT pressed into the cam plate like the older versions, should you want to remove them and/or replace them. The newer cam plate/tensioners DO NOT need a special tool to remove the tensioners from the cam plate while leaving the cams in place.
If you are going into the cam plate, you will need a new cam cover gasket (#25244-99A). Although many, myself included, have reused that gasket before... It's just not worth the risk that it might leak, due to the time it takes to replace it... You'll also need new exhaust gaskets, as I always remove the exhaust system to get the best access and room when working on in the cam chest...
If you just open it up, and see the front tensioner looks real good, then button it back up... That's all you'll need... Oh yeah, and new motor oil.
Should you decide to take it all apart, then be aware that the push rods will need to be removed....
You can do that by going in through the top of the motor and reuse the OEM pushrods (for OEM cam and some new cams)... It's easy, just takes a little more time... Then you will need two new rocker cover gaskets #17386-99A and two new rocker base o-rings #11270 (but they can easily be reused if they look good). You can actually do it from the top, without messing with the pushrod tubes...
Or you can open up the pushrod tubes, cut the old pushrods with a bolt cutter, and ten put it back together with adjustable pushrods. You don't need to remove the tank or rocker covers, but you'll need to remove the pushrod tubes. Your pushrod tube O-rings should be OK, but if damaged there are 3 different O-rings; Top #11293, middle #11132A, and bottom #11145A.
With the entire cam plate removed, you will also need, in addition to the above, the main oil pump o-ring #11293 (same as upper pushrod tube, most people don't realize that), and the two smaller o-rings behind the cam plate #11301.
If you need to replace the tensioner pads, you can buy aftermarket tensioner pads from several sources that are ok, such as the Fueling hydraulic tensioner replacements. Fuelings come mounted on the piston for about $30 for both. If you opt for new tensioners to include the base, piston, spring, and new pads from Harley (#39968-06 for primary chain (outside of the cam plate) and #39969-06 for secondary chain (inside of the cam plate) they are about $45 each.
If you go that far, I would change out the inner cam bearings to Koyo (formerly Torrington) B-168 needle bearings. They cost about $12 each.. The special cam bearing tool will cost around $100, depending on make... it is pretty easy and almost failsafe to use... However, many have changed them out with the right size blind bearing puller and bearing driver... But if you don't have them in your tool box, and are inexperienced with their use.. I would buy the special tool...
It is essential, IMHO, to get the HD 2008 Softail factory service manual for this job, or any job you want to do on the bike you have not done before. You can get a brand new one #99482-08, from Surdyke HD Online. They also sell some used ones on eBay, but be wary... some of the used ones, and several of the "new" ones on eBay are selling for more than you can buy it new from Surdyke...
I have changed out 6 cam chests, and I have had the book open, and read it each time.... I don't do this enough to remember all the steps off the top of my head. If you have basic to moderate wrenching skills/experience, with the factory manual, and after watching a couple of the better cam chest videos (FuelMoto has a couple as does S&S), you'll have no problem...
I believe I've covered quite a bit of the process. I'm sure others will chime in with anything I forgot...
Don't let the job intimidate you.. it's not really hard, just time consuming...
Good luck and have fun...!!
Here's a couple pics of the cam chest opened up:
On my 2001 Springer, this is when I opened up the cam chest to inspect the spring tensioners:
This is everything removed, for new tensioners, and inner cam bearings. I went in through the rocker boxes, and reused OEM pushrods:
On my 2003 Heritage, I got carried away and went big bore, head work, new cams, and the full S&S cam plate upgrade.....
I have the sickness.....
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,139
Likes: 11,206
From: San Diego, CA
Then one day I put my trail camera on the shelf of my shop work bench... We live in a rural area, and whenever I see signs of critters messing about my property, I set up the trail camera to see who they are, and if I need to set traps....
When I went to use the trail camera about a month later.... I saw that I left it turned on..
There were literally hundreds of pics on there.... luckily, most very boring stuff....
But I changed the bars on my bagger during that time, and got a bunch of shots of me working on my bike... While I tend to be camera shy, I liked the idea of having pics of the handlebar mod. That was about 4 years ago, and I started taking pics after that incident...
I have three bikes, and have done several fixes, mods, and repairs in those four years..... so I have some good pics of various stuff.
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 9, 2022 at 07:50 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 688
Likes: 200
From: In my own world
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,139
Likes: 11,206
From: San Diego, CA
Very nice surprise......!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
freakfxr
General Harley Davidson Chat
82
Jul 23, 2020 09:00 PM
highwayking
General Harley Davidson Chat
6
May 15, 2006 03:55 AM