Negative Trail and Horrible Stability
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
You are wrong with your numbers.
By looking at your bike there is no way the trail is negative. If I were to guess the trail would definitely be well over + 7" and would probably be +10" or more. Don't guess but measure if you are to make a statement.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 816
Likes: 10
From: Southern, MD
Those trees look to be more than 5*, i have 5 * trees on my bike and I have no problem now. I had a problem when I lowered my front end but I put it back to stock length and now I can go 110mph without a shake problem. Are your fork tubes stk lenght or has the front been lowered? If its been lowered in the front then that might be your problem.
Thread Starter
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Stage IV
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
I have had a very reputable bike shop and i have checked the trail myself. Its right at 4-5 negative. Maybe we are thinking alike but just confusing ourselves by terminology.
Too Little Trail:
With too little and in extreme cases, negative trail (steering mark behind the front axle mark) the bike will handle with unbelievable ease at low speeds, but be completely out of balance at high speeds. It will easily develop a fatal high-speed wobble
Im pretty sure on the 5° but i will check them tonight! I will also check the fork tube length.
Thanks again for all your input guys!
Too Little Trail:
With too little and in extreme cases, negative trail (steering mark behind the front axle mark) the bike will handle with unbelievable ease at low speeds, but be completely out of balance at high speeds. It will easily develop a fatal high-speed wobble
Im pretty sure on the 5° but i will check them tonight! I will also check the fork tube length.
Thanks again for all your input guys!
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 654
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island, BC
Hi Shady, That is a nice looking bike, but it is definately dangerous. You might get some positive trail back by going to 3 degree raked trees, but if you want to do it the proper way, I would go back to stock trees and have the frame raked. The way it is now, you have the stability of a shopping cart.
Here are a couple links to raked tree info.
http://www.jpcycles.com/Tech/Articles/techtalk6.htm
http://www.bikernet.com/garage/rakedtrees.asp
and here's a quote from rbracings website:
"A word to the wise: If you want to extend your stock Harley's front end by using a set of raked triple trees...DONT! Raked triple trees are really used where the bike has a raked neck of 40 degrees or more. In these cases the raked trees bring the trail back to a shorter, more manageable, distance. Using raked trees on a stock steering stem will shorten the trail too much and lead to instability as the speed increases. Picture a high speed shopping cart. Consider, instead, a set of raked cups that keep the pivot and the fork tubes parallel to each other but "kick out" the front end....or rake your chassis by cutting your neck and positioning it for longer tubes, chopper style.
In some cases where the builder is going for a raked look and chooses not to cut his steering neck, custom raked triple clamps with less offset can be designed. Combined with longer fork tubes to keep the neck at a reasonable height, less offset in the triple trees will increase the trail to reasonable levels (4 to 6 inches). Less offset will move the fork tubes closer to the gas tank on full lock....so check this in advance."
Here are a couple links to raked tree info.
http://www.jpcycles.com/Tech/Articles/techtalk6.htm
http://www.bikernet.com/garage/rakedtrees.asp
and here's a quote from rbracings website:
"A word to the wise: If you want to extend your stock Harley's front end by using a set of raked triple trees...DONT! Raked triple trees are really used where the bike has a raked neck of 40 degrees or more. In these cases the raked trees bring the trail back to a shorter, more manageable, distance. Using raked trees on a stock steering stem will shorten the trail too much and lead to instability as the speed increases. Picture a high speed shopping cart. Consider, instead, a set of raked cups that keep the pivot and the fork tubes parallel to each other but "kick out" the front end....or rake your chassis by cutting your neck and positioning it for longer tubes, chopper style.
In some cases where the builder is going for a raked look and chooses not to cut his steering neck, custom raked triple clamps with less offset can be designed. Combined with longer fork tubes to keep the neck at a reasonable height, less offset in the triple trees will increase the trail to reasonable levels (4 to 6 inches). Less offset will move the fork tubes closer to the gas tank on full lock....so check this in advance."
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
I have had a very reputable bike shop and i have checked the trail myself. Its right at 4-5 negative. Maybe we are thinking alike but just confusing ourselves by terminology.
Too Little Trail:
With too little and in extreme cases, negative trail (steering mark behind the front axle mark) the bike will handle with unbelievable ease at low speeds, but be completely out of balance at high speeds. It will easily develop a fatal high-speed wobble
Im pretty sure on the 5° but i will check them tonight! I will also check the fork tube length.
Thanks again for all your input guys!
Too Little Trail:
With too little and in extreme cases, negative trail (steering mark behind the front axle mark) the bike will handle with unbelievable ease at low speeds, but be completely out of balance at high speeds. It will easily develop a fatal high-speed wobble
Im pretty sure on the 5° but i will check them tonight! I will also check the fork tube length.
Thanks again for all your input guys!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,257
Likes: 6
From: Leander Texas
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
Try www.chopper-kit-usa.com. They sell a front end with that raked out look, but it's adjusted so that the rake and trail work out right for your application. That's if you don't want to modify your frame.
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 782
Likes: 7
From: Texas
Try www.chopper-kit-usa.com. They sell a front end with that raked out look, but it's adjusted so that the rake and trail work out right for your application. That's if you don't want to modify your frame.
If you go back to stock tree's its gonna cost you, If you like the raked look and can go a little more I highly recommend AME.