Raked Triple Tree Causing Steering Problems
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 13
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Raked Triple Tree Causing Steering Problems
Please help
I bought a new ultima front end for my Harley Rocker 09. It has a 3 degree rake and is 2 over stock. I had it installed at a custom shop which they quoted me 4 hrs. When it was complete the guy ended up charging me 30 hours plus parts. It took nearly 3 weeks.
Now the bike handles terribly. The only info I could find that describes my problems correctly states I am getting to much trail now as I measured nearly 5 inches with the recommended being 2 to 4 inches. The bike now handles exactly like described if there is to much trail. "The bike will handle sluggishly at high speeds. It will seem almost too steady. You will have trouble balancing your bike at lower speeds, or on winding roads. It will feel generally sluggish and clumsy". This is true, it is like I cannot keep the bike straight at low speeds. It wants to go to the left and right and is hard to stear.
My question is are there any suggestions anyone can offer me to decrease the trail, such as maybe getting a 21 inch wheel (currently 19) or lowering the back end. I'm really looking for a simple solution as this has turned out to be a nightmare and has cost me a lot of cash. I do not want to have to take that front end back off and have to start over with stock after going through all of this.
THe plus (if there is one) is the bike looks great.
Any help anyone could offer would be really appreciated.
Thanks alot
I bought a new ultima front end for my Harley Rocker 09. It has a 3 degree rake and is 2 over stock. I had it installed at a custom shop which they quoted me 4 hrs. When it was complete the guy ended up charging me 30 hours plus parts. It took nearly 3 weeks.
Now the bike handles terribly. The only info I could find that describes my problems correctly states I am getting to much trail now as I measured nearly 5 inches with the recommended being 2 to 4 inches. The bike now handles exactly like described if there is to much trail. "The bike will handle sluggishly at high speeds. It will seem almost too steady. You will have trouble balancing your bike at lower speeds, or on winding roads. It will feel generally sluggish and clumsy". This is true, it is like I cannot keep the bike straight at low speeds. It wants to go to the left and right and is hard to stear.
My question is are there any suggestions anyone can offer me to decrease the trail, such as maybe getting a 21 inch wheel (currently 19) or lowering the back end. I'm really looking for a simple solution as this has turned out to be a nightmare and has cost me a lot of cash. I do not want to have to take that front end back off and have to start over with stock after going through all of this.
THe plus (if there is one) is the bike looks great.
Any help anyone could offer would be really appreciated.
Thanks alot
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Starting at the beginning: When you add a set of raked triple trees to a stock frame, you decrease the trail, not increase it. Barring the installation of a springer front end with special rockers, trail must be decreased; it is impossible to increase trail with raked trees & a standard front end.
Raked trees were meant to be installed on raked frames to reduce the trail caused by the increased rake. While many installations have been completely satisfactory because they didn't decrease the trail into the danger zone, each installation should be measured, and measured correctly, so that too little trail doesn't end up causing a fine ol' tank-slapper.
Here's a link that should help:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html
Here's a pic that shows the trail relationship between head angle and tube angle. (b) shows raked trees resulting in 0" of trail.
Raked trees were meant to be installed on raked frames to reduce the trail caused by the increased rake. While many installations have been completely satisfactory because they didn't decrease the trail into the danger zone, each installation should be measured, and measured correctly, so that too little trail doesn't end up causing a fine ol' tank-slapper.
Here's a link that should help:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html
Here's a pic that shows the trail relationship between head angle and tube angle. (b) shows raked trees resulting in 0" of trail.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,344
Likes: 6
From: my house
30 hours????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????
holy rip off batman are you kidding me??????????????
what did they do make it them selfs? man dude i feel for ya
do yerself a favor buy a service manual and tools
30 hours????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK KKKKKKKKKKK
well pain is over post up pics so we all can see this million dollar front end!!!
holy rip off batman are you kidding me??????????????
what did they do make it them selfs? man dude i feel for ya
do yerself a favor buy a service manual and tools
30 hours????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK KKKKKKKKKKK
well pain is over post up pics so we all can see this million dollar front end!!!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 2
Dude sorry hear that! I did mine myself it took me about 2 weeks due to having to change out wheel bearing and measuring up the correct spacers and ordering the correct caliper.. 30 hours is way to much labor... no freaking way he put that much work into it.. I have the Ultima 5 degree stock length and I think it handles better than stock.. I have no issue at low or high speeds... Mine is lowered 2 inches in the rear and tho I have thought about the 21 inch wheel It will be more of a cosmetic decision... Good luck.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
help
Go to my site and download your own calculator and measure. 30 hours? I R&R a Bagger with my front end in less than 4 hours. Did you leave out that they rebuilt your motor and painted your bike? HD gets 10 hours to change a frame. You may want a custom 21" wheel found HERE
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
And by the way, a little under 4" of trail in the minimum you should go w/o a steering stabilizer.
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Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2008
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pococj,
Looking at the the specs straight from Harley Davidson it says it had 6.20 trail originally so I agree, but everything I could find said a 4 inch trail would be alright. I did the calculator you sent and it has me at about 4.22. With the info I found describing how it would handle, they attribute to to much trail.
Yeah it was crazy what the guy charged!!! Like I said he quoted me 4 hrs and I cut the spacers, machined the caliper mount for them, bought the fork stoppers, etc and provided them to him.I checked with the dude everyday and he never said anything about where we were going on labor. When It was finally ready is when the dude dropped it on me. I had never changed a front end and after looking at it I figured I would leave to a professional...what a mistake!!
Joe What,
Anyway you could calculate your trail for me and give some brief info on dropping it? I will post some pics today.
Thanks,
Looking at the the specs straight from Harley Davidson it says it had 6.20 trail originally so I agree, but everything I could find said a 4 inch trail would be alright. I did the calculator you sent and it has me at about 4.22. With the info I found describing how it would handle, they attribute to to much trail.
Yeah it was crazy what the guy charged!!! Like I said he quoted me 4 hrs and I cut the spacers, machined the caliper mount for them, bought the fork stoppers, etc and provided them to him.I checked with the dude everyday and he never said anything about where we were going on labor. When It was finally ready is when the dude dropped it on me. I had never changed a front end and after looking at it I figured I would leave to a professional...what a mistake!!
Joe What,
Anyway you could calculate your trail for me and give some brief info on dropping it? I will post some pics today.
Thanks,
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