ignorant newbie question.
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Intermediate
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ignorant newbie question.
I'm sure this sounds like a dumb question to most of you, but i was wondering, what does a power-commander and other such products do for you? i have a screaming eagle air intake and vance and hines big radius pipes. h-d dealer did the stage 1 with my air intake install. does that do the same thing or would a power commander do me any good.
looking for a little more HP and it seems that is the next stage.
looking for a little more HP and it seems that is the next stage.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Connecticut
A PC will allow the fuel to be enrichened. You will notice the change more than stage 1. That changes the rev limiter. Fuel management is the key. There are many choices out there and if you plan on cams,heads a 103" or bigger I would suggest a TTS,SERT, T-Max
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2007
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From:
They don't usually include a SEST, they just flash the ECM with a different canned stage 1 map. If the dealer actually tuned it, on a dyno, then they would have needed the tuner and should have given it to him when they were finished.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Arkansas
Well, I'm feeling better about my dealer then! They included the SEST with my stage 1, flashed the ECM, gave me my tuner with a prepaid Dyno tune to use whenever I want to (they suggested at the 1K service after the exhaust and engine were broke in unless I plan to do more engine mods).
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wow. sounds like you got a great dealer. were is this? i'm pretty sure mine just flashed the stock ECM.not sure though, like i said, i'm pretty ignorant of it all. and i'm certain they didn't dyno it or give me the tuner.
would it be that big of a difference between the flash and another tuner?
would it be that big of a difference between the flash and another tuner?
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Rochester, NY
The flash is just a preset map for the ECM that makes allowances for the additional air stage 1 parts let into and out of the engine.
Its only a generic setup that still has to comply with Fed EPA standards, so there always room for improvement.
Especially as every combination of stage 1 parts will not offer exactly the same performance.
A tuner on the other hand can be tailored to put in exactly the right amount of fuel for any combination of parts in order to get the most out of them.
And if you decide to change something else later on like the heads or throttle body for example it can be retuned to accommodate them as well.
PS Don't be so down on being slightly ignorant, we all were, and often still are about something or other.
Just don't be afraid to ask intelegent questions. Because IMHO its the answer to the one you don't ask that's going to either get you into trouble, cost you money, or both.
Also don't be afraid to use the forums search function.
Many if not most questions have been asked and answered numerous times over the years.
So there's a lot of valuable info to be mined if you do a little digging.
Have fun and ride safe,
Remember the cagers ARE out to get you.
Its only a generic setup that still has to comply with Fed EPA standards, so there always room for improvement.
Especially as every combination of stage 1 parts will not offer exactly the same performance.
A tuner on the other hand can be tailored to put in exactly the right amount of fuel for any combination of parts in order to get the most out of them.
And if you decide to change something else later on like the heads or throttle body for example it can be retuned to accommodate them as well.
PS Don't be so down on being slightly ignorant, we all were, and often still are about something or other.
Just don't be afraid to ask intelegent questions. Because IMHO its the answer to the one you don't ask that's going to either get you into trouble, cost you money, or both.
Also don't be afraid to use the forums search function.
Many if not most questions have been asked and answered numerous times over the years.
So there's a lot of valuable info to be mined if you do a little digging.
Have fun and ride safe,
Remember the cagers ARE out to get you.
Last edited by In Memoriam Citoriplus; Feb 24, 2010 at 10:34 AM.
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Intermediate
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Thank you, thats exactly what i was trying to figure out. And no i don't think i'm being hard on myself, just don't know alot about bikes... yet. but thats why i'm here
I've got just one other question about tuners though. You mentioned retuning later when/if new parts are added, i'm guessing that the auto-tuners i've heard of have something to do with that, or is it just something to do with not having to dyno to tune it in. Also is this the next logical step for getting more power? or should i be looking at cams or elsewhere? thanks for all the help. last couple of days i've really been hooked on these forums!
I've got just one other question about tuners though. You mentioned retuning later when/if new parts are added, i'm guessing that the auto-tuners i've heard of have something to do with that, or is it just something to do with not having to dyno to tune it in. Also is this the next logical step for getting more power? or should i be looking at cams or elsewhere? thanks for all the help. last couple of days i've really been hooked on these forums!
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May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
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From: Rochester, NY
If you add or change different parts of the engine to make it breath better or more you need to retune it.
Otherwise its going to put the same amount of fuel, regardless of the amount of air its sucking in.
That can lead to disaster if (and it will) starts running too lean.
The function of an auto tuner, like the TMax w/Autotune I have on my bike, is not to retune it in general terms. I still have to put something in that's close to the right settings.
But to automatically fine tune the map the same way a dyno tuner would do manually.
Its real advantage is that a dyno tune is really only 'perfect' the day its installed.
Change the temperature, air density (altitude), or humidity and the dyno tuned map is no longer optimized.
Its still close enough to function, and do it very well because unless your going from Death Valley in summer to Denver in winter.
The odds are good that its never going to be very far off, but its not perfect.
The auto tuners on the other hand will continuously try to fine tune the map to the conditions of the day.
That help?
As for what to change next, that's up to you and your future plans for the bike.
I would recommend that you hold off on any decisions about major engine upgrades until you have some time on the bike and get a better idea what you want out of it.
Otherwise your going to be spending money on the same things over and over again.
Otherwise its going to put the same amount of fuel, regardless of the amount of air its sucking in.
That can lead to disaster if (and it will) starts running too lean.
The function of an auto tuner, like the TMax w/Autotune I have on my bike, is not to retune it in general terms. I still have to put something in that's close to the right settings.
But to automatically fine tune the map the same way a dyno tuner would do manually.
Its real advantage is that a dyno tune is really only 'perfect' the day its installed.
Change the temperature, air density (altitude), or humidity and the dyno tuned map is no longer optimized.
Its still close enough to function, and do it very well because unless your going from Death Valley in summer to Denver in winter.
The odds are good that its never going to be very far off, but its not perfect.
The auto tuners on the other hand will continuously try to fine tune the map to the conditions of the day.
That help?
As for what to change next, that's up to you and your future plans for the bike.
I would recommend that you hold off on any decisions about major engine upgrades until you have some time on the bike and get a better idea what you want out of it.
Otherwise your going to be spending money on the same things over and over again.
Last edited by In Memoriam Citoriplus; Feb 24, 2010 at 08:16 PM.
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Intermediate
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thanks again citoriplus. thats covers it. think i'll wait and decide where to go next before i get a tuner.
i've already put almost 18,000 miles on it. moved up from a 700 yamaha, so i had plenty of power for a while, but now i'm used to it and wouldn't mind a little more. I'm thinking for now my best route is to head down to my local indy and talk to him about what i'm specifically looking for in terms of power and see what he recommends. he's been pretty straight with me so far so i'll try and see what he has to offer.
i've already put almost 18,000 miles on it. moved up from a 700 yamaha, so i had plenty of power for a while, but now i'm used to it and wouldn't mind a little more. I'm thinking for now my best route is to head down to my local indy and talk to him about what i'm specifically looking for in terms of power and see what he recommends. he's been pretty straight with me so far so i'll try and see what he has to offer.