Another Brake Bleed issue
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 203
Likes: 3
From: Australia
Another Brake Bleed issue
Hi Guys,
I replaced my brake line and master cylinder with flash new braided and chrome etc, however I am having trouble getting the brake firm.
I read so many different ways to do it and have tried them all. I started by pumping fluid UP from the nipple and into the reservoir, and then tried conventional bleeding, but no matter what I do, I can't get a firm lever.
Now I did read that I should pull the handle in tight and tape it off over night which is where I am at now, but am looking for any further info to help.
Cheers
-J
I replaced my brake line and master cylinder with flash new braided and chrome etc, however I am having trouble getting the brake firm.
I read so many different ways to do it and have tried them all. I started by pumping fluid UP from the nipple and into the reservoir, and then tried conventional bleeding, but no matter what I do, I can't get a firm lever.
Now I did read that I should pull the handle in tight and tape it off over night which is where I am at now, but am looking for any further info to help.
Cheers
-J
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,975
Likes: 12
From: NJ
This thread should help. That cable tie thing worked well for me.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...ing-issue.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...ing-issue.html
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 14
From: Western MD
either use a gravity bleed and don't let the resevoir run dry or use this no fail method..
you will need a helper..
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold.
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
repeat process until fluid runs clear with no bubbles. i have used this method for umpteen yrs and has never failed me.. by pumping the pedal or lever, it only osilates the bubbles in the fluid and compounds the problem.
you will need a helper..
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold.
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
repeat process until fluid runs clear with no bubbles. i have used this method for umpteen yrs and has never failed me.. by pumping the pedal or lever, it only osilates the bubbles in the fluid and compounds the problem.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 203
Likes: 3
From: Australia
Oh we tried that for a good half hour - no bubbles, but a very spongy lever.
I will give it another go tomorrow. I have bled a thousand break lines (but never a HD) I didn't think there was any difference, but I thought maybe there is some sort of tricky it that I missed.
I will give it another go tomorrow. I have bled a thousand break lines (but never a HD) I didn't think there was any difference, but I thought maybe there is some sort of tricky it that I missed.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 14
From: Western MD
a brake system is a brake system.. i even bleed ABS systems like that. as long as the fluid is running clear it can't be a air issue..
many many years ago i replaced a master cyl on a car with a aftermarket piece and for the life of me i couldn't get a good pedal without a few pumps.. i got to checking why it wouldn't hold pressure and found that the aftermarket M/cyl didn't have the residual check valves in it.. the conical seat in the m/cyl had a checkvalve behind.. look very closely they are tiny very light spring valves that hold just enough fluid in the line so it doesn't take a extra pump to get correct pressure.. i've learned from that weekend of pounding my head against a wall to always check and make sure the parts are the same.
that was a car and i'm not sure if motorcycle cyls are made like that, i'm not even sure if car cyls are like that anymore. what i'm trying to say is, check and make sure the replacement cyl is exactly the same where the line goes in..
many many years ago i replaced a master cyl on a car with a aftermarket piece and for the life of me i couldn't get a good pedal without a few pumps.. i got to checking why it wouldn't hold pressure and found that the aftermarket M/cyl didn't have the residual check valves in it.. the conical seat in the m/cyl had a checkvalve behind.. look very closely they are tiny very light spring valves that hold just enough fluid in the line so it doesn't take a extra pump to get correct pressure.. i've learned from that weekend of pounding my head against a wall to always check and make sure the parts are the same.
that was a car and i'm not sure if motorcycle cyls are made like that, i'm not even sure if car cyls are like that anymore. what i'm trying to say is, check and make sure the replacement cyl is exactly the same where the line goes in..
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 203
Likes: 3
From: Australia
This one is the a Genuine HD Master Cylinder - and there is no mention of anything like that in the instructions.
I will give it another go in the morning and let you know how it goes.
I will give it another go in the morning and let you know how it goes.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 14
From: Western MD
no, you shouldn't have to change anything over... that was a rareity and have never ran across that same problem again..
heres something to try.. put the old line back on, ( i assume it has the rubber hose visible) bleed the system and see if the problem is still there. if its gone, the line inside the stainless cover is expanding and causing the sponginess. if its still there, put a pair of needle nose vice grips on the rubber portion and see if you have a rock solid lever. there should be zero sponginess with the line vice gripped shut. if there is still a spongy feeling, you got a bad master cyl. if the problem goes away then theres a issue with the caliper and or pads. you didn't have the pads out did you ? i have seen pads not installed correctly and cause pedal feel problems..
just because the parts new, doesn't mean its good..
take in mind, i am talking car experience here, but a hydraulic brake system is pretty basic and doesn't really change whether its on 2 or 4 wheels, a clutch or brake system..
heres something to try.. put the old line back on, ( i assume it has the rubber hose visible) bleed the system and see if the problem is still there. if its gone, the line inside the stainless cover is expanding and causing the sponginess. if its still there, put a pair of needle nose vice grips on the rubber portion and see if you have a rock solid lever. there should be zero sponginess with the line vice gripped shut. if there is still a spongy feeling, you got a bad master cyl. if the problem goes away then theres a issue with the caliper and or pads. you didn't have the pads out did you ? i have seen pads not installed correctly and cause pedal feel problems..
just because the parts new, doesn't mean its good..
take in mind, i am talking car experience here, but a hydraulic brake system is pretty basic and doesn't really change whether its on 2 or 4 wheels, a clutch or brake system..
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: NJ
I've bled brakes on cars many times so I figured I wouldn't have any problem doing it on the wife's Deluxe.
But after trying several different methods including vacumn bleeding and some home made gravity system, the lever still felt spongy with more than normal travel.
I used the chromite II brake line with the rotating union between the A&B sides and I thought that may have been causing a problem but never found out for sure.
After using the lever tie method a couple or 3 nights in a row I contented myself with the fact that the bike stopped fine and gave the wife the okay to ride it.
A few weeks later I happened to take her bike for a ride and was surprised to find the lever felt normal so perhaps a "lost" bubble worked it's way up the line.
But after trying several different methods including vacumn bleeding and some home made gravity system, the lever still felt spongy with more than normal travel.
I used the chromite II brake line with the rotating union between the A&B sides and I thought that may have been causing a problem but never found out for sure.
After using the lever tie method a couple or 3 nights in a row I contented myself with the fact that the bike stopped fine and gave the wife the okay to ride it.
A few weeks later I happened to take her bike for a ride and was surprised to find the lever felt normal so perhaps a "lost" bubble worked it's way up the line.
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2009
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either use a gravity bleed and don't let the resevoir run dry or use this no fail method..
you will need a helper..
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold.
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
repeat process until fluid runs clear with no bubbles. i have used this method for umpteen yrs and has never failed me.. by pumping the pedal or lever, it only osilates the bubbles in the fluid and compounds the problem.
you will need a helper..
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold.
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
you; open bleeder
helper; pull brk lever slowly and hold
you; close bleeder
helper; let lever out
repeat process until fluid runs clear with no bubbles. i have used this method for umpteen yrs and has never failed me.. by pumping the pedal or lever, it only osilates the bubbles in the fluid and compounds the problem.
