performance oriented suspension for '08 nightster
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,230
Likes: 12
From: Mount Holly, NC
f the naysayers. hotrodding and sportsters goes hand-n-hand.
the n's suspension is garbage. sportsters steering geometry is too.
first thing you'll want to do is get the rear raised so go with taller shocks (i have road king air shocks and they're damned fine for the money). the steering angle changes when the rear end gets raised and the bike becomes more maneuverable. next you'll want to do something about the forks. inverted forks are great if you can get them, but i'm not sure you can tweak the length and i'd hate to see the pricetag for those things. you'll want to trash the lowering kit in the nightster and get internals from a normal sportster fork. i dont think you'll need longer fork tubes but i may be wrong. unless the springs are worn out, you wont need to get "progressives" since the dampening rate is what needs changing. have the holes filled (in the damper tube) and drill smaller ones. instead of putting the forks in their usual place, slide them up into the tripple-trees to level the bike. unless you chop the steering head you sure as hell don't want to add more length to the front end. more travel is good.
start shaving weight anywhere you can. every ounce counts.
keep "unsprung weight" low. anything that adds weight to the wheels/tires/lower-suspension-parts is the devil and deserves your hatred.
aerodynamics go mostly forgotten on naked sportbikes but lets face it, mirrors and signals etc etc need to be moved to places where they don't add resistance. make a hobby of cleaning up the air flow.
good tires make all the difference. call around and find a tire rep who can work with you.
if you find yourself in ky stop by. bring scotch!
the n's suspension is garbage. sportsters steering geometry is too.
first thing you'll want to do is get the rear raised so go with taller shocks (i have road king air shocks and they're damned fine for the money). the steering angle changes when the rear end gets raised and the bike becomes more maneuverable. next you'll want to do something about the forks. inverted forks are great if you can get them, but i'm not sure you can tweak the length and i'd hate to see the pricetag for those things. you'll want to trash the lowering kit in the nightster and get internals from a normal sportster fork. i dont think you'll need longer fork tubes but i may be wrong. unless the springs are worn out, you wont need to get "progressives" since the dampening rate is what needs changing. have the holes filled (in the damper tube) and drill smaller ones. instead of putting the forks in their usual place, slide them up into the tripple-trees to level the bike. unless you chop the steering head you sure as hell don't want to add more length to the front end. more travel is good.
start shaving weight anywhere you can. every ounce counts.
keep "unsprung weight" low. anything that adds weight to the wheels/tires/lower-suspension-parts is the devil and deserves your hatred.
aerodynamics go mostly forgotten on naked sportbikes but lets face it, mirrors and signals etc etc need to be moved to places where they don't add resistance. make a hobby of cleaning up the air flow.
good tires make all the difference. call around and find a tire rep who can work with you.
if you find yourself in ky stop by. bring scotch!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,225
Likes: 4
From: fegfsg
ok if your absolutely serious about this, here is what you need to do!
sell the nightster
(wait it gets better!)
buy an older sportster, 1986 to 1993 or so. here is why
the frame is lightweight and strong, the motor is solid mounted for stability and rigidity, it alone weighs 60 pounds less than your nightster frame. the entire bike weighs almost 150 pounds less
then your going to need to buy a buell engine and put it into that frame. this is becuase beulls make around 100 HP stock and pull harder than any current sportster engine.
next you will need to rip an inverted front end off some sportbike and use clips to get the handling and performance of the front end correct
good shocks on the back, easily found, just keep them around 15 inches and you will have MORE than enough cornering clearance for anything
the rest is just adding a peanut tank to keep weight down and fenders as you like them.
in the end you can make it look JUST like a nightster but it will be pushing 100 HP, weigh at most 450 pounds (compared to 590 for the nightster) and handle WAY better than that rubbermounted mushy low cornering nightster
even with this PURE performance/stock look build, you will never outrun those bikes on the track, but you will have a truley amazing handling sportster that can hold its own in the mountains.
otherwise i would not even bother putting any "performance" money into the nightster except that stage 1
sell the nightster
(wait it gets better!)
buy an older sportster, 1986 to 1993 or so. here is why
the frame is lightweight and strong, the motor is solid mounted for stability and rigidity, it alone weighs 60 pounds less than your nightster frame. the entire bike weighs almost 150 pounds less
then your going to need to buy a buell engine and put it into that frame. this is becuase beulls make around 100 HP stock and pull harder than any current sportster engine.
next you will need to rip an inverted front end off some sportbike and use clips to get the handling and performance of the front end correct
good shocks on the back, easily found, just keep them around 15 inches and you will have MORE than enough cornering clearance for anything
the rest is just adding a peanut tank to keep weight down and fenders as you like them.
in the end you can make it look JUST like a nightster but it will be pushing 100 HP, weigh at most 450 pounds (compared to 590 for the nightster) and handle WAY better than that rubbermounted mushy low cornering nightster
even with this PURE performance/stock look build, you will never outrun those bikes on the track, but you will have a truley amazing handling sportster that can hold its own in the mountains.
otherwise i would not even bother putting any "performance" money into the nightster except that stage 1
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
for your info only
I modify Harleys and we make our living at the track concerning every aspect except running gear. I refuse/have never set on a Jap bike but respect them. I prefer to push them than to ride them as a matter of principle. With that said, here we go.
With just a few points and I have got to go to work, here are some of the good points in your favor.
No one says that you can not have a great handling bike and best of all have fun with your Harley. Can you ever beat a Sport bike on a track (not drag)? No, not this year. Chances of you getting laid are much better, however. Just my opinion but do what you want and have fun doing it.
- Your frame is no where stiff enough to corner like a Sport Bike. Look at the steering neck, it is not supported sideways to prevent flex.
- Your motor is not rigidly mounted latterly to prevent frame flex (using the sides of the motor).
- Your hinge point between the front axle to pivot shaft to rear axle is no where equal so transversing road irregularities (bumps) is not as efficient (one of the reasons why Buell’s will never be competitive).
- Your bike is too long.
- Overall weight to usable horsepower (your own bike will need additional HP to loose traction)
- Real competition Sport Bikes can not use all of the horsepower they have as it is a matter of traction/tire technology.
- Computer assist (numerous) motor management/control V/S non existent HD.
With just a few points and I have got to go to work, here are some of the good points in your favor.
- You do not have to wear them multi-color leather racing suits at the bar with the sock down your pants leg (you own a HD and do not need to show off)
- Chances of changing sexual preference the minute you mount a sport bike is eliminated.
- When asked whose sport bike that is and everyone points to the bent over guy.
- You can park your bike out front and not around back.
- Chicks dig Harley’s.
- You will beat every Sport bike on the “Dragon” if you do the speed limit and start side by side with a sport bike and travel 800 miles at one time. Even if you do not you will feel much better and still be able to have fun that night at the bar.
No one says that you can not have a great handling bike and best of all have fun with your Harley. Can you ever beat a Sport bike on a track (not drag)? No, not this year. Chances of you getting laid are much better, however. Just my opinion but do what you want and have fun doing it.
Last edited by FastHarley; Jan 7, 2009 at 11:53 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,230
Likes: 12
From: Mount Holly, NC
FastHarley, can you elaborate on the following statement?
Your hinge point between the front axle to pivot shaft to rear axle is no where equal so transversing road irregularities (bumps) is not as efficient (one of the reasons why Buell’s will never be competitive).
What is hinge point? How does it effect handling? Any information would be appreciated.
Your hinge point between the front axle to pivot shaft to rear axle is no where equal so transversing road irregularities (bumps) is not as efficient (one of the reasons why Buell’s will never be competitive).
What is hinge point? How does it effect handling? Any information would be appreciated.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 365
Likes: 1
From: Rock Ave. & Hardplace St.
What's the old saying about turning chicken sh*t into chicken salad?
If you are looking for a good suspension Ohlins or Penske shocks and Works Performance progressive rate fork kits will probably get you as far as a 1200N will go in the suspension department (within reason).
If you are looking for a good suspension Ohlins or Penske shocks and Works Performance progressive rate fork kits will probably get you as far as a 1200N will go in the suspension department (within reason).
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Hinge point and frame differences
Hinge Point: Check this out than think overnight about the advantages of mass centre, moments of inertia and weight distribution. Keep in mind where the rider sits, and where the engine/transmission is located (Jap 4 Cy. Sport Bike compact sideways w/ trans almost on top if the motor) in relation to the hinge point. The bikes are in actual relative size to each other (the best I can do).
This (below) is a typical 2006 GSX1300R Hyabusa aluminum formed frame (not a good race bike around turns as it is too big/heavy) Notice the construction of the frame and the attention to rigidity and resistance to headstock deflection under cornering load. The bottom is a stock 2007 Sportster steel frame.
In a race around the track what do you think would happen?
This (below) is a typical 2006 GSX1300R Hyabusa aluminum formed frame (not a good race bike around turns as it is too big/heavy) Notice the construction of the frame and the attention to rigidity and resistance to headstock deflection under cornering load. The bottom is a stock 2007 Sportster steel frame.
In a race around the track what do you think would happen?
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Missing the point
Look at the two bikes, one has a hinge point more to the center and the sportster has a swing arm that is short and the distance from pivot shaft to front forks is longer in relationship. There is only one hinge point and the relationship is directly related to length (with weight equation removed for this post) between the pivot shaft and axles. The more equal the better the set up as well as distance (shorter the better within reason and not talking about mini bikes but race bikes) between axles.
Last edited by FastHarley; Jan 8, 2009 at 07:17 PM.
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 445
Likes: 19
From: Lynden, Washington, USA
OK since I am still deployed to this garbage dump of a country (Iraq). I have yet to actually see my own personal bike in person. I am tryingto figure out whether or not it has the standard throttle or the sensor type throttle? Anyone who can enlighten me would save me a headache later on.
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