Red Hot
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 253
Likes: 1
From: Virginia Beach
All of this makes sense, Im not sure how much the tune is different but we both got ours done at the same place. and the results look about the same. Now, the pipes are about 2/3 thinner than stock, and about 1/2 as thin as my old sideshots. This WHOLE system (assembled) only weighs 6.5 pounds. Someone else was saying that it may be too rich, and the unburnt fuel was finishing it's burn in the header. Could that be it? The engine seems to be running fine temp wise, and the spark plugs look great. Im not sure if the internal temp is too much or not yet. Any way you can tell/ find out if the pistons are in fact running too hot? If so, how? This is most perplexing. Thanks again to everyone for all the input.
Anyone know anyone, maybe like an Independent Tuner kind of guy, that may be able to offer some words of wisdom?
Allen
Anyone know anyone, maybe like an Independent Tuner kind of guy, that may be able to offer some words of wisdom?
Allen
Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,904
Likes: 9
From: Streetsboro, Oh
My bike was doing the same thing when I put the new pipes on. Once I got it tuned it no longer does it. If there is not a tunning issue then there could be an exhaust leak. Check the flang gaskets and bolts and all other exhaust connections. If there is no leak then the bike need to be tuned again.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 606
Likes: 2
Lean running is the only thing that is going to have the pipes glowing, richer equals cooler....
A rich mixture wont burn in the pipe unless there is an air leak, which would give backfires when you let up.
That said, really thin pipes can get red hot.
My old Triumphs had very thin pipes, and would NOT glow, the new Triumph had very thin pipes and they would glow stock, with the air injection and lean burn. They would turn blue half the length being so hot, many guys rejetted and removed the air injection before ever starting the motor.
The old bikes were jetted rich and after 5 years, my pipes were gold the first 2 inches from the head, not blue for a foot and a half!
Better safe than sorry, get the mixture checked, a piston with a hole in it or a burnt valve would be no fun at all.
The plug check was a good idea, but you have to do a plug chop to really tell what is going on, as in run the bike at various throttle openings and speeds, chop the ignition and pull the plugs.
Looking at the plugs after riding a while will only show an average (idle, part, full throttle).
It could be fine at idle, but lean at speed...
Brett
A rich mixture wont burn in the pipe unless there is an air leak, which would give backfires when you let up.
That said, really thin pipes can get red hot.
My old Triumphs had very thin pipes, and would NOT glow, the new Triumph had very thin pipes and they would glow stock, with the air injection and lean burn. They would turn blue half the length being so hot, many guys rejetted and removed the air injection before ever starting the motor.
The old bikes were jetted rich and after 5 years, my pipes were gold the first 2 inches from the head, not blue for a foot and a half!
Better safe than sorry, get the mixture checked, a piston with a hole in it or a burnt valve would be no fun at all.
The plug check was a good idea, but you have to do a plug chop to really tell what is going on, as in run the bike at various throttle openings and speeds, chop the ignition and pull the plugs.
Looking at the plugs after riding a while will only show an average (idle, part, full throttle).
It could be fine at idle, but lean at speed...
Brett
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,230
Likes: 12
From: Mount Holly, NC
Got a friend here that just bought a 2008 Nightster. He liked my new exhaust, and ordered the same. He has the big sucker, V&H Comp. 2-1, and a PC5. Got it tuned, and we just went for a ride. Got off the highway, hit 2 stoplights, and I noticed his front pipe was glowing red at the top. The tune looks solid (better than mine was at first) and it runs great. Could it just be that the pipes are very thin? Or is it something to be REALLY concerned with? He's running between 14.0 to 12.9 AFR all the way across the board. Im baffled, as mine don't glow at all. Any help would be great.
Tourer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 299
Likes: 2
14.0:1 is a "normal" AFR. higher will be richer, lower will be leaner
the AFR (Air to Fuel Ratio) is obviously off. If it were running pig rich it would be dumping raw fuel into the exhaust, but it's doing the exact opposite. the chambers are burning TOO hot. Not sure how the ignition timing works on these bikes, but i'd look into that also.
the AFR (Air to Fuel Ratio) is obviously off. If it were running pig rich it would be dumping raw fuel into the exhaust, but it's doing the exact opposite. the chambers are burning TOO hot. Not sure how the ignition timing works on these bikes, but i'd look into that also.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 253
Likes: 1
From: Virginia Beach
Mustang: Higher is leaner, its an air to fuel ratio. Higher means more air, which means leaner. Certainteed: I saw his dyno sheet. Hell, his looks (on paper) better than mine. Ill repost when we get this figured out. Please keep the suggestions coming though. Everyone is saying lean, lean, lean. Hope that's what it is, cause that's an easy fix. Exhaust flanges are a good idea too.
Thanks again everyone.
Thanks again everyone.
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
I will bet you a beer this dude is running lean. I've tuned boosted cars with aftermarket tuning suites (efi cars). I use to do two tunes for boosted apps, because of how sensitive they are to changing conditions when dialing em in after a lot of work.
First tune was on the dyno to get it dialed in, close to what it'll run on the street. Once we were happy with afr, egt, and making sure no KR was present throughout the pull, the second step was to take it to the street and make some highway pulls and a few pulls through the gears to make sure all was OK. Most times we had to add a bit more fuel( only if the car didn't have real time O2 correction through WBO2 feedback) We had to do this because the dyno doesn't put a load on the car like the street does and the car will go lean.
So if the bike looked OK on the dyno, it could've swung lean on the street...depending on how it was tuned. The tuner could've tuned it for max HP/TQ numbers but got it too close to the "edge" of running lean. I'm guessing this bike is running high 15.8's to 16.1's AFR for the pipes to glow so quickly after a short WOT event.
I hope i'm wrong, and the tuner left some safety in the tune.
J
First tune was on the dyno to get it dialed in, close to what it'll run on the street. Once we were happy with afr, egt, and making sure no KR was present throughout the pull, the second step was to take it to the street and make some highway pulls and a few pulls through the gears to make sure all was OK. Most times we had to add a bit more fuel( only if the car didn't have real time O2 correction through WBO2 feedback) We had to do this because the dyno doesn't put a load on the car like the street does and the car will go lean.
So if the bike looked OK on the dyno, it could've swung lean on the street...depending on how it was tuned. The tuner could've tuned it for max HP/TQ numbers but got it too close to the "edge" of running lean. I'm guessing this bike is running high 15.8's to 16.1's AFR for the pipes to glow so quickly after a short WOT event.
I hope i'm wrong, and the tuner left some safety in the tune.
J
Tourer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 299
Likes: 2
I will bet you a beer this dude is running lean. I've tuned boosted cars with aftermarket tuning suites (efi cars). I use to do two tunes for boosted apps, because of how sensitive they are to changing conditions when dialing em in after a lot of work.
First tune was on the dyno to get it dialed in, close to what it'll run on the street. Once we were happy with afr, egt, and making sure no KR was present throughout the pull, the second step was to take it to the street and make some highway pulls and a few pulls through the gears to make sure all was OK. Most times we had to add a bit more fuel( only if the car didn't have real time O2 correction through WBO2 feedback) We had to do this because the dyno doesn't put a load on the car like the street does and the car will go lean.
So if the bike looked OK on the dyno, it could've swung lean on the street...depending on how it was tuned. The tuner could've tuned it for max HP/TQ numbers but got it too close to the "edge" of running lean. I'm guessing this bike is running high 15.8's to 16.1's AFR for the pipes to glow so quickly after a short WOT event.
I hope i'm wrong, and the tuner left some safety in the tune.
J
First tune was on the dyno to get it dialed in, close to what it'll run on the street. Once we were happy with afr, egt, and making sure no KR was present throughout the pull, the second step was to take it to the street and make some highway pulls and a few pulls through the gears to make sure all was OK. Most times we had to add a bit more fuel( only if the car didn't have real time O2 correction through WBO2 feedback) We had to do this because the dyno doesn't put a load on the car like the street does and the car will go lean.
So if the bike looked OK on the dyno, it could've swung lean on the street...depending on how it was tuned. The tuner could've tuned it for max HP/TQ numbers but got it too close to the "edge" of running lean. I'm guessing this bike is running high 15.8's to 16.1's AFR for the pipes to glow so quickly after a short WOT event.
I hope i'm wrong, and the tuner left some safety in the tune.
J
always good to do some street tuning after the dyno as the dyno does not put load on the vehicle.
for some reason i typed the AFR conditions opposite...must've been not been paying attention...appologies