Mid Controls VS. Forward Controls: Preferences
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 321
Likes: 25
From: Canuckistan
Control = comfort, comfort != control.
A Sportster will never be a sport bike, and should never be a sofa (that's what BT's are for). However, you can un-Harley a Sportster and make it a good performance bike with good handling capabilities (the true nature of the Sportster). A proper suspension and mid or rear sets are critical for aggressive cornering.
If you think you are cornering aggressively with forwards, apes and 10" shocks, then you don't understand the concept.
A Sportster will never be a sport bike, and should never be a sofa (that's what BT's are for). However, you can un-Harley a Sportster and make it a good performance bike with good handling capabilities (the true nature of the Sportster). A proper suspension and mid or rear sets are critical for aggressive cornering.
If you think you are cornering aggressively with forwards, apes and 10" shocks, then you don't understand the concept.
Last edited by saddleupmc; Aug 1, 2014 at 02:31 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Likes: 1
From: Portland
From reading your posts it seems that you automatically associate forward controls with slammed suspension and mini apes. A Sportster could have 12.5" shocks, cartridge or upgraded springs in the fork and drag or clubman bars with forward controls. You live in a different world from mine if you think mid controls would suddenly transform the bike I just described. By the way, folks have been riding faster than you ever have long before you showed up Lastly putting candles on a cow pie does not turn it in to a birthday cake.
If you did indeed read my posts, and more importantly understood what you read, you wouldn't be making the fundamental mistake you are making. I am not advocating hardware as an instant solution (or as a solution at all), but technique as the solution. Proper hardware makes proper technique possible.
Get it?
Last edited by Fantome; Aug 1, 2014 at 02:37 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,932
Likes: 45
From: Stockbridge GA
Both the guys in front of me have mids.................somehow they didnt walk away from me. We werent racing by any stretch of the imagination but it was some pretty spirited riding at times
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Likes: 1
From: Portland
Both the guys in front of me have mids.................somehow they didnt walk away from me. We werent racing by any stretch of the imagination but it was some pretty spirited riding at times
http://youtu.be/qoMQOlw-bts
http://youtu.be/qoMQOlw-bts
I think if you had some mids so you could pivot steer, you would have held a better line (like the guys in front of you) when you hit the double yellow lines a few times. Pivot steering at such shallow lean angles would also help reduce the unfortunate scraping of parts/boots.
In fact, this video perfectly illustrates the problems associated with rolling through curves cruiser-style.
Thx Rog.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,932
Likes: 45
From: Stockbridge GA
It scrapped because its low not because it had forwards. And yeah, I dont have a perfect line every time, had nothing to do with the forwards. There were almost 5 hours worth of video I edited down to 4 minutes.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Likes: 1
From: Portland
Cornering is not just point and shoot, there are many factors and techniques to do it right. The bike setup is pretty critical to success in using the techniques I have been referring to. But if your thing is just cruising, have at it, just don't confuse what you are doing with aggressive cornering.
As a personal note to Rog; while I am responding to your post, I am not necessarily responding to you. I am using the general "you" in my responses.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Likes: 1
From: Portland
Learn what pivot steering is. Let us know how it goes.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 126
From: Manassas, VA
Since you seem to understand pivot-steering so well, why don't you explain it so the rest of us may be enlightened.
I was curious enough, and thought, "What da Hell. Maybe I'll learn something." After all, I'll ride anything with two wheels. Maybe it'll help. Somehow. So, I gave it a Google and spent a little time reading.
If you want any significant direction change, you need counter-steering. I qualified that statement with significant because, yes, you can lean to one side and weight a peg to influence the direction of a bike, but the result will be minimal, if any. Particularly at speed, with your wheels' and drivetrain's gyroscopic effect.
Here's a thread where, presumably, the Kieth Code chimed in about pivot steering. Post #24, member name "codedog". He goes on to Say, in post #30, "I wouldn't touch the peg weighting debate with a ten foot poll (sic)." Pivot steering, in a nutshell, is simply anchoring your body. I'm not certain why it's called "pivot steering". It should be called "anchor steering." Here's an example I'll paraphrase from the above mentioned thread:
Put a scale on a wall. Put your left hand on the scale and raise your right foot. Push on the scale with you left hand. Now, keep your left hand on the scale, put your right foot down and raise your left foot. Push on the scale using your left hand and right foot. This results in a greater force against the scale.
Pivot steering, then, is bracing your outside leg between the peg and the gas tank in an attempt to gain easier leverage on the bars. It has nothing to do with weighting the outside peg. I'm not sure how the word "pivot" came to replace the words "planted", "braced" or "anchored".
That's how it went for me. Did you try getting through Willow Springs with your hands off the bars, yet? Pics required. LOL
Reference thread: http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/uk-mo...tside-peg.html
I was curious enough, and thought, "What da Hell. Maybe I'll learn something." After all, I'll ride anything with two wheels. Maybe it'll help. Somehow. So, I gave it a Google and spent a little time reading.
If you want any significant direction change, you need counter-steering. I qualified that statement with significant because, yes, you can lean to one side and weight a peg to influence the direction of a bike, but the result will be minimal, if any. Particularly at speed, with your wheels' and drivetrain's gyroscopic effect.
Here's a thread where, presumably, the Kieth Code chimed in about pivot steering. Post #24, member name "codedog". He goes on to Say, in post #30, "I wouldn't touch the peg weighting debate with a ten foot poll (sic)." Pivot steering, in a nutshell, is simply anchoring your body. I'm not certain why it's called "pivot steering". It should be called "anchor steering." Here's an example I'll paraphrase from the above mentioned thread:
Put a scale on a wall. Put your left hand on the scale and raise your right foot. Push on the scale with you left hand. Now, keep your left hand on the scale, put your right foot down and raise your left foot. Push on the scale using your left hand and right foot. This results in a greater force against the scale.
Pivot steering, then, is bracing your outside leg between the peg and the gas tank in an attempt to gain easier leverage on the bars. It has nothing to do with weighting the outside peg. I'm not sure how the word "pivot" came to replace the words "planted", "braced" or "anchored".
That's how it went for me. Did you try getting through Willow Springs with your hands off the bars, yet? Pics required. LOL
Reference thread: http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/uk-mo...tside-peg.html
Last edited by HarleyScuba; Aug 3, 2014 at 01:52 AM. Reason: nunya
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Likes: 1
From: Portland
I am a disappointed that, with the entirety of the Internet at your disposal, you still didn't figure it out - even with Keith Code to describe it, you still managed to confuse it with peg weighting. You really should learn how to ride a motorcycle one day.
I was curious enough, and thought, "What da Hell. Maybe I'll learn something." After all, I'll ride anything with two wheels.
Maybe it'll help. Somehow. So, I gave it a Google and spent a little time reading.
If you want any significant direction change, you need counter-steering. I qualified that statement with significant because, yes, you can lean to one side and weight a peg to influence the direction of a bike, but the result will be minimal, if any. Particularly at speed, with your wheels' and drivetrain's gyroscopic effect.
Here's a thread where, presumably, the Kieth Code chimed in about pivot steering. Post #24, member name "codedog". He goes on to Say, in post #30, "I wouldn't touch the peg weighting debate with a ten foot poll (sic)."
Pivot steering, in a nutshell, is simply anchoring your body.
I'm not certain why it's called "pivot steering". It should be called "anchor steering."
Here's an example I'll paraphrase from the above mentioned thread:
Put a scale on a wall. Put your left hand on the scale and raise your right foot. Push on the scale with you left hand. Now, keep your left hand on the scale, put your right foot down and raise your left foot. Push on the scale using your left hand and right foot. This results in a greater force against the scale.
Put a scale on a wall. Put your left hand on the scale and raise your right foot. Push on the scale with you left hand. Now, keep your left hand on the scale, put your right foot down and raise your left foot. Push on the scale using your left hand and right foot. This results in a greater force against the scale.
Pivot steering, then, is bracing your outside leg between the peg and the gas tank in an attempt to gain easier leverage on the bars.
It has nothing to do with weighting the outside peg.
I'm not sure how the word "pivot" came to replace the words "planted", "braced" or "anchored".
That's how it went for me.
Did you try getting through Willow Springs with your hands off the bars, yet? Pics required. LOL
My apologies for being so pissy, and I will blame it mostly on the wine, but in reality I get a little annoyed with people who try to be clever and fail.
I'll try to find a YouTube vid for you tomorrow, or maybe some cartoons to make it clearer. Right now, I need to refill my glass.