Agreed.

 

You need to retrofit a projector into your housing to get all the use out of that HID. Also make sure the bar and shield on front of housing is right side up.

 

No. It hasn't. Not in any way that is relevant to the discussion of reflector optics. The problem is NOT a technological problem. It CANNOT be solved, or even mitigated, with "technological advancements." The size, shape and positioning of the HID light source (the arc) are all fundamentally different from those of a traditional Halogen filament bulb and no amount of "technology" can change that. You will NOT get a legal beam pattern from a HID in a filament housing, and it will NOT help you see better. Just because something seems "brighter" does not mean that you're actually seeing more.

Saying that "new technology" in HID bulbs makes the retrofits into H4 housings OK is like saying that "new technology" in the production of diesel fuel makes it OK to run diesel in a gas engine.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

Some relevant quotes:

The ONLY way to "safely and effectively" install a HID system is to replace the entire housing with one designed for a HID bulb from the get-go. It will NEVER be possible to "safely and effectively" drop a HID bulb into a housing designed for a halogen filament bulb. Anyone who thinks otherwise has absolutely zero grasp of optical science.

 

That would be the best bet for a great custom look and the best light pattern and output. It may be something I could do down the road, a friend of mine retro-fits projectors in car headlights. I am pretty happy with the light now with the HIDs, I may look into getting a better aftermarket housing/reflector but not really sure that is need now, just something I can think about.

 

I used the cheaper stuff on my Ford Excursion and MB. Changed it several times over a couple of years till I decided to buy the good stuff on my Vette and never had an issue so I changed all the cars over to the pricier stuff WITH GOOD REFERENCES. Good stuff doesn't go for cheap nor does it have to. Sure, I could get a few months up to a year with the cheap stuff but what is my time worth? Especially in a month when I have to do shoulder and elbow surgery and will not be able to wrench on it for 4 plus months.

 

I know that article says that it's never going to be out of date, but in some aspects it is (I did read the entire thing). There is a lot of useful information in it, that I'll agree with. Most of it is true.

The only way to "legally" (safely and effectively is not a blanket statement, there are limiting factors but it is possible) install an HID system is to replace everything, yes. Some retrofit manufacturers do offer products with proper bulb shielding and capping, to help some of the issues with beam pattern and cutoff, and in some cases they do play very nicely with reflector housings. Also, the quality of the bulb and ballasts in question can and do decide if a sloppy or clean pattern and cutoff can be achieved using a reflector. I know he doesn't seem to think so and it's not 100% optically correct or legal for that matter, but I have been working directly with HID systems for the past 10 years or so on many different vehicles and I can say that yes it can be done (on most recent vehicles) and in an acceptable fashion in regards to usable light in the correct location, vision obstruction to oncoming traffic and so forth. There are a TON of crap products out there and it's very easy to think that all of them are alike, but there are a few good retrofit manufacturers out there that are taking steps to work around the conceptual flaws and do have good products.

The question of legality isn't being side-skirted here. It's not legal to install HID retrofit bulbs into non-HID housings. This is something everyone who does a retrofit should consider. Also, if you're not capable of performing proper before and after testing and adjustment of usable light and the placement and reach of said light on your vehicle, you probably shouldn't attempt to put HIDs in your vehicle.

I'm going to stand behind my statement that you can achieve an acceptable result using quality products without a projector beam headlamp assembly. It's not going to be optically correct on all fronts like a factory job would be, but it is going to produce more usable light which will allow you to see more of the road not just immediately in front of you, but signage and objects in the distance as well as to the left and right of the bike. Whether or not you blind or produce glare for oncoming drivers or yourself is going to be based on the quality of the product used and your knowledge and ability to adjust it until it's acceptable for both sides.

I'm not disagreeing with your statements, but plainly lumping it all into the same category and just calling it all crap is not correct. I know the laws of optical science can't be bent or broken or rewritten, but there can be a happy medium between the does and does not work scenario.

 

I never said you needed a projector assembly.

I said you needed an assembly that was designed for a HID bulb from the outset. There were/are several reflector assemblies that were designed from the ground up for HID bulbs (the '95 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC and certain models of Subaru come to mind).

What I have said, and what is not really arguable, is that you cannot get a proper beam pattern by putting bulb type X into an assembly designed for bulb type Y. In the same way that you can't just re-base an H7 bulb to shove it into an H4 housing and get an acceptable beam pattern, you also cannot just re-base a D1R, D2R, D3R, or D4R and shove it into an H4 housing to get an acceptable result. And you definitely cannot use a D1S, D2S, D3S, or D4S (the "S" signifying that these bulbs are designed only for projector housings while the "R" bulbs are designed for HID-only reflector housings).

The reflector and the bulb type are a matched pair. Using a bulb in a reflector that was not designed for it is never advisable.

 

I'm agreeing with what you're saying here (and have experience with cars like the Mark VIII, several Subaru models including the earlier WRX STi, Toyota Prius, Shelby GT500 Mustang, etc). Proper and acceptable are two different terms. Proper being 100% and acceptable being somewhere between 1% and 99%, dependent on a few factors.

I will not argue that you can get a proper beam pattern, but I will say that you can get one that works and lets you see more without distracting other traffic around you. No placebo, but an honestly brighter AND more usable and further reaching beam of light than the crap Harley puts in these bikes stock.

H4 bulbs are actually some of the easiest ones to work with in terms of HID retrofits when you buy the good ones. The shields on the bulbs are some of the better designs in terms of keeping light from reaching places it's not supposed to go.

It's not legal or even optimal, but it works and works well for an inexpensive upgrade solution to the excuse for a headlamp HDs come stock with.

 

I am always baffled by these discussions when people say the Sporty has a lousy stock headlight. Here in rural Westmoreland County Va. street lights are few and far between. There are miles and miles of unlit highway with 10 foot tall corn on both sides. My headlight is more than adequate allowing me to see both shoulders of the road and pick out deer's eyes long before there is danger. At 70 years old I don't think I have any kind of super vision. Just wondering.

 

I guess you're one of the lucky ones. With a properly adjusted headlamp, my stock bulb barely lit up a 6-7ft wide area and it was all concentrated in one very dim spot on the road. Making more adjustments only moved the tiny concentrated spot around. Probably a defective bulb, but I was going to change to HID anyway so I knew it would be better than that.

My father's RK's stock headlamp is about 20 times as effective (and was a much whiter light) as my stock one was. No issues seeing anything with his.