general "timing" and map question post 1250 conversion...
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 35
From: Gulf Breeze, FL
Well, I may have spoken too soon. Bike still getting to 380f with Mich's map. Ran a different map for comparison and same temps. no matter what i do, the ET's just wont stay consistantly below 400. Hopefully the dealership can figure it out and get a good tune on the dyno minus the heat
What I'm really finding out is that the bike will stay pretty consistent heat wise if I'm cruising at 50+. It'll stay below 360f usually then. The temps really only climb when I'm going 40-45mph in 3rd gear at 3000-3500rpm (basic cruising speed on normal city streets). When I'm in that range, the temps soar to 380-400+. The bike also tends to cool down when I'm stopped at lights, etc.
What I'm really finding out is that the bike will stay pretty consistent heat wise if I'm cruising at 50+. It'll stay below 360f usually then. The temps really only climb when I'm going 40-45mph in 3rd gear at 3000-3500rpm (basic cruising speed on normal city streets). When I'm in that range, the temps soar to 380-400+. The bike also tends to cool down when I'm stopped at lights, etc.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 35
From: Gulf Breeze, FL
12.5 is way too rich...even for WOT. I was just trying to determine if it was running too lean at partial throttle. I would next try moving the timing up and down in those cells to see what effect that had. If your tuner has the ability, disable the knock sensor temporarily while making changes. I would even go so far as to disable the O2 sensors and force the engine to accept the afr's without interference until I found the root cause.
Last edited by rickss69; Jun 15, 2013 at 01:07 PM.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Rick, 12.5 lowered my engine temperature even more. I'd say I averaged just over 370F.
My next ride will be with a Hammer supplied map, that I have 6 or so autotune sessions done on, with the afr modified to 13.8 in the 'problem' zone for the first run, 12.5 or maybe slightly higher for the next.
xhellionx, can you try the same modification to the afr in the 1750 - 3500 rpm, 30 - 40 map range?
My next ride will be with a Hammer supplied map, that I have 6 or so autotune sessions done on, with the afr modified to 13.8 in the 'problem' zone for the first run, 12.5 or maybe slightly higher for the next.
xhellionx, can you try the same modification to the afr in the 1750 - 3500 rpm, 30 - 40 map range?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 35
From: Gulf Breeze, FL
Rick, 12.5 lowered my engine temperature even more. I'd say I averaged just over 370F.
My next ride will be with a Hammer supplied map, that I have 6 or so autotune sessions done on, with the afr modified to 13.8 in the 'problem' zone for the first run, 12.5 or maybe slightly higher for the next.
xhellionx, can you try the same modification to the afr in the 1750 - 3500 rpm, 30 - 40 map range?
My next ride will be with a Hammer supplied map, that I have 6 or so autotune sessions done on, with the afr modified to 13.8 in the 'problem' zone for the first run, 12.5 or maybe slightly higher for the next.
xhellionx, can you try the same modification to the afr in the 1750 - 3500 rpm, 30 - 40 map range?
Last edited by rickss69; Jun 15, 2013 at 01:17 PM.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Good point Rick. My Hammer tune has lower timing in the cruise range than the one I was using from xhellionx. It will give us some insight into the effect of lower timing with increased fuel. Maybe the lower timing will allow for a decrease in the afr tables. It's all about trial and error at this point.
Glad it's Father's Day weekend, that give me opportunities to ride. Just hope the weather holds.
Glad it's Father's Day weekend, that give me opportunities to ride. Just hope the weather holds.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 35
From: Gulf Breeze, FL
Yeah, I just swapped a clutch and I'm waiting on the mail for a clutch cable myself. When I get it back together I'll go for another ride/record session and see what temps mine show for comparison.
EDIT: Ride showed a max temp of 311 degrees. Of course mine is still a 883 and may have no bearing on your temps without others input.
EDIT: Ride showed a max temp of 311 degrees. Of course mine is still a 883 and may have no bearing on your temps without others input.
Last edited by rickss69; Jun 15, 2013 at 05:52 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 58
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From: Reno, NV
Rode today a little harder since the break-in miles are done. First things first: LOVE the power now, almost makes all of this heat trouble worth it, lol. Still got to 380, although hit some freeways today so expected higher temp. To answer an earlier question, my AFR in the meat of the map is 14, per Mich's most recent table.
Here is something I feel I need to mention: I've been researching this heat issue for weeks and what I mostly found, is that OLDER model Sporties tend to run cooler, ie less than 320F. I've read that the NEWER Sporties (2012-2013) seem to run higher, ie 340+. Not sure why or if this is even accurate but read up on it and you may come to same conclusion. Still, 380 is not normal from what I've read but I have read some people in this range still.
Like I stated before, I have an appt with Harley on the 26th. They are going to do 1000mile service, dyno and tune with my PowerVision Pro, and diagnose heat issue. It is going to cost a fortune but hopefully I'll have answers. I'll report back.
What year is yours?
Here is something I feel I need to mention: I've been researching this heat issue for weeks and what I mostly found, is that OLDER model Sporties tend to run cooler, ie less than 320F. I've read that the NEWER Sporties (2012-2013) seem to run higher, ie 340+. Not sure why or if this is even accurate but read up on it and you may come to same conclusion. Still, 380 is not normal from what I've read but I have read some people in this range still.
Like I stated before, I have an appt with Harley on the 26th. They are going to do 1000mile service, dyno and tune with my PowerVision Pro, and diagnose heat issue. It is going to cost a fortune but hopefully I'll have answers. I'll report back.
Yeah, I just swapped a clutch and I'm waiting on the mail for a clutch cable myself. When I get it back together I'll go for another ride/record session and see what temps mine show for comparison.
EDIT: Ride showed a max temp of 311 degrees. Of course mine is still a 883 and may have no bearing on your temps without others input.
EDIT: Ride showed a max temp of 311 degrees. Of course mine is still a 883 and may have no bearing on your temps without others input.
Last edited by xhellionx; Jun 15, 2013 at 10:46 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 35
From: Gulf Breeze, FL
Rode today a little harder since the break-in miles are done. First things first: LOVE the power now, almost makes all of this heat trouble worth it, lol. Still got to 380, although hit some freeways today so expected higher temp. To answer an earlier question, my AFR in the meat of the map is 14, per Mich's most recent table.
Here is something I feel I need to mention: I've been researching this heat issue for weeks and what I mostly found, is that OLDER model Sporties tend to run cooler, ie less than 320F. I've read that the NEWER Sporties (2012-2013) seem to run higher, ie 340+. Not sure why or if this is even accurate but read up on it and you may come to same conclusion. Still, 380 is not normal from what I've read but I have read some people in this range still.
Like I stated before, I have an appt with Harley on the 26th. They are going to do 1000mile service, dyno and tune with my PowerVision Pro, and diagnose heat issue. It is going to cost a fortune but hopefully I'll have answers. I'll report back.
What year is yours?
Here is something I feel I need to mention: I've been researching this heat issue for weeks and what I mostly found, is that OLDER model Sporties tend to run cooler, ie less than 320F. I've read that the NEWER Sporties (2012-2013) seem to run higher, ie 340+. Not sure why or if this is even accurate but read up on it and you may come to same conclusion. Still, 380 is not normal from what I've read but I have read some people in this range still.
Like I stated before, I have an appt with Harley on the 26th. They are going to do 1000mile service, dyno and tune with my PowerVision Pro, and diagnose heat issue. It is going to cost a fortune but hopefully I'll have answers. I'll report back.
What year is yours?