Advantages/Disadvantages of ThunderMax and Power Vision
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
Before o2s the thundermax made some sense but current Ecms are better than the thundermax ecm. A proper flash tuner is a better option and the PV is the most user friendly of the flash tuners. Disadvantage of Thundermax is cost, limited aftermarket support and the "auto tune" makes proper tuning problematic. Can't think of a disadvantage of the PV other than it takes a Dyno to really get a proper tune, but that is true in all cases except most tuners can not really provide a proper tune. There is really no need for wide band o2s for most applications.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,722
Likes: 9,152
From: Georgia
The only downside I've seen using the PV2 is the lack of a consolidated source of tuning information. If you want to get it and use the canned map from Fuel Moto and then do the auto tuning to tweak the map, it is very easy to use.
If you want to start advancing the timing, or analyzing datalogs to try to get a little more performance out of it, you are kind of on your own. I would love to see a thread with screen shots of timing advance tables people are running with a list of their mods.
I had my bike pretty well tuned for my Rushmore with just Rinehart slip on's. I added a stage 1 A/C and ran two auto tune sessions. The first changed the VE's by about 10% in various places across the map, but generally enriched the map across the board. The second auto tune session leaned them back out and put the values somewhere in the middle.
It's a powerful tool, no doubt about it. I would like to see a consolidated source of information on how to dial the bike in perfectly. Jamie should write a book. I would buy it. I don't like bugging our sponsors with petty questions and haven't, but searching out the answers in the forum can be a daunting task.
If you want to start advancing the timing, or analyzing datalogs to try to get a little more performance out of it, you are kind of on your own. I would love to see a thread with screen shots of timing advance tables people are running with a list of their mods.
I had my bike pretty well tuned for my Rushmore with just Rinehart slip on's. I added a stage 1 A/C and ran two auto tune sessions. The first changed the VE's by about 10% in various places across the map, but generally enriched the map across the board. The second auto tune session leaned them back out and put the values somewhere in the middle.
It's a powerful tool, no doubt about it. I would like to see a consolidated source of information on how to dial the bike in perfectly. Jamie should write a book. I would buy it. I don't like bugging our sponsors with petty questions and haven't, but searching out the answers in the forum can be a daunting task.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 934
Likes: 54
From: SE Wisconsin
I replaced my ECM with the ThunderMax in 2011, it has been running very well since!
For kicks, I had it Dynoed at a Bike Rally two years ago, the power curve was smooth, quick and strong! I was even more impressed when comparing sheets with a buddy running a PC5 and similar set-up, did the same Dyno right after me. ...He was not as happy
For kicks, I had it Dynoed at a Bike Rally two years ago, the power curve was smooth, quick and strong! I was even more impressed when comparing sheets with a buddy running a PC5 and similar set-up, did the same Dyno right after me. ...He was not as happy
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 149
Likes: 1
From: Somewhere in the US
Sorry guys, I am new to this whole tuning and upgrading thing so I am loaded with questions. I have been looking at exhaust and tuners and there is tons of choices between sound, performance and quality. Exhaust wise, I understand that a 2-1 performs the best but I am afraid they are going to be louder than I would want. I have been looking at the Jackpot 2-1-2 stainless/ceramic header tipped with Rinehart 4" or RC slipons and either the TMax or PV tuner. I already have a Ness Big Sucker kit that I have never installed. Would the Jackpot 2-1-2 produce close to same performance as a true 2-1? RC also told me that they have a headpipe that is stepped and also supposed to produce close to same performance as a 2-1. Anyone know anything about these products or anything better?
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,675
Likes: 8,401
From: Utah
I found some of the best reading material on tuners to be the TTS, ( The Turbo Shop ) Master Tune manual. TTS is yet another tuner with a very good reputation.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/downloads/tts_tuning.pdf
Chapter 1 and 3 explain what the tuner is doing and why. Reading this will answer many of your questions.
I think J929626 has some good advice, a PV2 would be a good tuner for Stage one and if you do some other mods the Auto tune Pro could be added.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/downloads/tts_tuning.pdf
Chapter 1 and 3 explain what the tuner is doing and why. Reading this will answer many of your questions.
I think J929626 has some good advice, a PV2 would be a good tuner for Stage one and if you do some other mods the Auto tune Pro could be added.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,722
Likes: 9,152
From: Georgia
Contact Jamie at Fuel Moto and ask him about his product. He'll tell you straight and has the dyno sheets to back up his opinion. I don't think the 2-1-2's give up much on a mild stage 1 build, but it would be interesting to see what he has to say about it.
From what I have read, they both seem to be good tuners but a guy that tunes bikes and high performance engines told me that wide band was better for tuning purposes. Anyone know if that is true? If so, it seems the TMax would end up being cheaper by the time you bought the Power Vision plus the Target Tuner. A mild stage 1 is all I plan on doing right now but who knows what the future holds.
BUT.
Is a COUPLE horsepower and a couple lb ft of torque worth that extra $$$$?
Unless your assdyno is SUPER sensitive, you are in to "paper racing" your sheets against your buddies, or are looking for thousandths on the racetrack, you will NEVER know the difference.
Stoplight racing at that point is more about the rider's skill... if you are that good (I'm not), then yes, it is worth the extra 400 bucks or so.
I have a good friend who IS that good, he spent the extra for the pro-tune whatever and wide bands. He wishes he wouldn't have.
Ask yourself what YOU need from your stage 1.
If it is ultimate performance... you need to go farther than a stage 1 to begin with.
If it is a better running, cooler, better sounding Harley, narrow bands will do it for you.
Save your money and buy something cool for the bike with it.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
he is saying that the pv2 with the add on wideband tuner will end up being about a $35 difference from the thundermax.