Yes: another thread on cams...
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,994
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From: bklyn,ny
That is lean. Was it tuned or did they just run it on a dyno and gIve you a sheet?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,386
Likes: 255
From: Southern California
That's not Lean. In fact it's slightly on the Rich side of the Stociometric Curve. 14.7:1 is the ideal or Stociometric Air Fuel Ratio. Numbers greater than 14.7:1 (Example: 15.0:1) are Lean and the larger the difference the Leaner the mixture is. Numbers less than 14.7:1 (Example 13.2:1) are Rich Air Fuel Ratios. The Dyno Sheet he provided appears to be fairly stable between 14.0:1 and 14.3:1 with very few exceptions. Thus the Air Fuel Ratio he is running on this Dyno Sheet is slightly Rich. For maximum power at greater than 80% Throttle Opening you would probably want something between 12.5:1 and 13.5:1, but at anything less than 80% (50% at a minimum) you'll ant to be between 14.5:1 and 14.9:1. If not, you're just wasting fuel. There is no value in dumping lots of fuel into the engine to get more power at anything less than extremely large throttle openings.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,138
Likes: 6,162
From: SE Michigan
Let me guess - tuned by a dealer?
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,318
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That's not Lean. In fact it's slightly on the Rich side of the Stociometric Curve. 14.7:1 is the ideal or Stociometric Air Fuel Ratio. Numbers greater than 14.7:1 (Example: 15.0:1) are Lean and the larger the difference the Leaner the mixture is. Numbers less than 14.7:1 (Example 13.2:1) are Rich Air Fuel Ratios. The Dyno Sheet he provided appears to be fairly stable between 14.0:1 and 14.3:1 with very few exceptions. Thus the Air Fuel Ratio he is running on this Dyno Sheet is slightly Rich. For maximum power at greater than 80% Throttle Opening you would probably want something between 12.5:1 and 13.5:1, but at anything less than 80% (50% at a minimum) you'll ant to be between 14.5:1 and 14.9:1. If not, you're just wasting fuel. There is no value in dumping lots of fuel into the engine to get more power at anything less than extremely large throttle openings.
Dyno results are done at wide open throttle. The bike should not be at 14+ at wide open throttle. This is very lean and doesn't appear to have been tuned correctly. Wide open runs should be 12.8-13. If this chart was showing a cruising afr then I'd agree with you.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,293
Likes: 3,518
From: PA
What's up good Brother.
I'm using a place called, Busted Knuckle Motorcycle shop (https://www.facebook.com/BustedNuckl...RepairLLCSouth)
Dudes been around for over 30 years. Top reputation.
He loves Andrews 57 and hates Woods. I have the Power Vision tuner which is pushed by Fuel Moto. I don't think they provide maps for Andrews cams.
But again, I'm looking for reasons WHY folks chose their cams. I don't want to just choose a cam w/o having evidence to support it.
Thanks gang!
I'm using a place called, Busted Knuckle Motorcycle shop (https://www.facebook.com/BustedNuckl...RepairLLCSouth)
Dudes been around for over 30 years. Top reputation.
He loves Andrews 57 and hates Woods. I have the Power Vision tuner which is pushed by Fuel Moto. I don't think they provide maps for Andrews cams.
But again, I'm looking for reasons WHY folks chose their cams. I don't want to just choose a cam w/o having evidence to support it.
Thanks gang!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,174
Likes: 1,960
From: Great State of Canada
I'm having a dilemma on choosing the right cam.
I have a 2012 SG. My mods are: CFR mufflers, Vance and Hines Headers, SE Air cleaner and Power Vision tuner.
I have no plans on doing any head work. I'm just looking to add more pep and torque when needed. My comfort zone is the 3000 - 5000 RPM zone. I do like riding a bit aggressive but when I'm cruising, I notice that I'm about 65 MPH at about 3000 RPM.
I called Fuel Moto and told this to Bob. His suggestions are the following:
Woods 222;
Woods 555;
Woods 777 (based on I enjoy higher end RPM's); and
999A6.
My Indy guy recommends the Andrews 57 Cam.
These are all good cams but I have no idea how to choose which is the best cam and I don't want to go through cam after cam in deciding.
For those who have chosen one of the listed cams, why did you choose so and what's your final opinion of your choice?
Please no arguments or lectures. Thanks!
I have a 2012 SG. My mods are: CFR mufflers, Vance and Hines Headers, SE Air cleaner and Power Vision tuner.
I have no plans on doing any head work. I'm just looking to add more pep and torque when needed. My comfort zone is the 3000 - 5000 RPM zone. I do like riding a bit aggressive but when I'm cruising, I notice that I'm about 65 MPH at about 3000 RPM.
I called Fuel Moto and told this to Bob. His suggestions are the following:
Woods 222;
Woods 555;
Woods 777 (based on I enjoy higher end RPM's); and
999A6.
My Indy guy recommends the Andrews 57 Cam.
These are all good cams but I have no idea how to choose which is the best cam and I don't want to go through cam after cam in deciding.
For those who have chosen one of the listed cams, why did you choose so and what's your final opinion of your choice?
Please no arguments or lectures. Thanks!
.Does Bob or your Indy have an opinion on the SE204? It is a drop in requiring no head work, comes on at about 2800 RPM, and pulls through the ranges you ride in. It also gives a nice lope at idle similar to the Andrews 57.
When I was looking for a "simple" cam upgrade for my Breakout the 204 was suggested as an easy do. I went with it and couldn't be happier. You'd loose a bit of low end grunt when starting off, "nothing serious", then benefit from greater pull in 2nd through 6th by staying on the cam.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 90
From: Charlotte
This won't help .
Does Bob or your Indy have an opinion on the SE204? It is a drop in requiring no head work, comes on at about 2800 RPM, and pulls through the ranges you ride in. It also gives a nice lope at idle similar to the Andrews 57.
When I was looking for a "simple" cam upgrade for my Breakout the 204 was suggested as an easy do. I went with it and couldn't be happier. You'd loose a bit of low end grunt when starting off, "nothing serious", then benefit from greater pull in 2nd through 6th by staying on the cam.
.Does Bob or your Indy have an opinion on the SE204? It is a drop in requiring no head work, comes on at about 2800 RPM, and pulls through the ranges you ride in. It also gives a nice lope at idle similar to the Andrews 57.
When I was looking for a "simple" cam upgrade for my Breakout the 204 was suggested as an easy do. I went with it and couldn't be happier. You'd loose a bit of low end grunt when starting off, "nothing serious", then benefit from greater pull in 2nd through 6th by staying on the cam.
Thanks but I'm going with the Woods 777. They're all good compared to stock but this is the cam that my gut is telling me about. I'm no longer considering any others.
Right now, I'm just comparing prices.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Lake, Ms
2010 Limited with some stuff
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Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 90
From: Charlotte
My buddy is now a philosopher... And that's the reason why I decided on 777's vs. 222's. Gonna want more power.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,994
Likes: 653
From: bklyn,ny
I'm guessing reliability/longevity is no longer of concern....