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Slipping clutch - back again already...

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Old Jun 13, 2016 | 07:01 PM
  #11  
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Ive replaced a bunch of those covers and have yet to use a torque wrench. I just carefully snug them all up then add a little more. Never had a leak. Still find them plenty tight when it comes time to loosen them back up for service. 100 in pounds is pretty close to nothing. I add this in case you don't have an inch pound torque wrench. Hope this helps.
 
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Old Jun 13, 2016 | 07:14 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by dandrumheller
...Maybe a little sooner than I wanted to be.

Background: Purchased new to me 2011 FLHTK from large used bike dealer last weekend (6/4/16). 23,700 miles on it. Since then, put on about 300 of my own miles, almost entirely back roads / 2 lane.

Noticed the clutch slipping on throttle roll-on in 5th gear at 3000 or so RPM yesterday when I was on the highway. Got off it and throttled up more gently, and it didn't slip. This was really the first time I'd had an opportunity to get 'spirited' with the throttle in 5th at that RPM.

Got home and checked the clutch cable after the bike cooled off - essentially zero free play. Nowhere near 1/16th to an 1/8th inch. Added a little slack with the cable adjuster (about half a turn gave me maybe 1/16th or a little less gap on the bottom side of the cable. Haven't had a chance to go back out and test ride this change yet. I also don't have a service manual yet. So a couple of questions:

-first bike with a clutch cable running through the fairing - is it normal that the clutch cable ferrule is angled down a little (more gap at top than bottom)? Seems like yes, as it appears the angle required for the cable to go through the fairing is what causes this.

-Is the torque spec for derby cover screws 82-100 in/lbs?

I called the dealer today - they claim they 'service' the clutch before selling the bikes, but said their test loop is like 6 miles and wouldn't provide an opportunity to catch something like I describe. They do have a 90 day warranty on their bikes (that specifically excludes the clutch of course), and said they'll be willing to take a look at it for me, under warranty, if my adjustments don't resolve the issue.

I think I'd rather try doing the adjustment myself first, since they gave me the bike with at least the clutch cable apparently incorrectly adjusted. I gotta learn sometime.

Also, this bike seems much more finicky about going into neutral than my '08 Deluxe was - possibly related? I'd think that lack of clutch cable slack / potential incomplete clutch engagement would make neutral easier to find rather than more difficult?

Other items of interest: all fluids are Spectro from the dealer - synthetic in the trans and conventional in the motor and primary I believe. No known motor mods (has stock exhaust and air cleaner).

From what I've read on these bikes so far, seems like at least one school of thought is that the clutch springs are too weak from the factory and should be upgraded?

Thanks for any input/advice/answers!

Dan
==============================

If re-adjusting the clutch doesnt stop the slippage then just as long as clutch the plates & metal spacers plates currently in the bike aren't warped from oveheating when clutch has been slipping all you need to do is install hD's hvy duty SE diaphram clutch spring .

It has approx 25% more clamping force then stock clutch spring has along with a new outer prim case gasket and approx 42oz prim case oil & your good to go.

If clutch plates or spacer plates are worn too thin or warped & discolored from overheating then it's toast requiring complete replacement ,but i'd still use the hvy dty SE clutch spring with the stock clutch pack setup which will last for many yrs & many miles if adjusted properly & used properly too.

And to get max life out of the clutch spring you should not hold clutch lever in (clutch disengaged) for a few mins at every stoplight which prematurely weakens / wears out the clutch spring causing clutch slippage.

Lastly,make sure you dont use improper pass car/truck oil with friction modifiers in the prim case because it can lead to premature clutch slippage like your low mile bike is experiencing so keep that in mind too.

Good luck.

Scott
 

Last edited by wscott; Jun 13, 2016 at 08:10 PM.
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Old Jun 13, 2016 | 07:41 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by dandrumheller
Thanks for the tip. Now I have a good excuse to get an impact driver.



Yep, saw lots of 'Don't use T-25 bits on those' threads. Have a T-27 and a torque wrench.

Can anyone confirm 84-108 in/lbs for 2011? I Guess 90 would meet both specs I've now seen posted...
T-27 and torque wrench is recommended and follow this torque sequence:.

 
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Old Jun 13, 2016 | 07:47 PM
  #14  
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As per the 2011 Service Manual:


Clutch inspection cover screws 84-108 in-lbs 9.5-12.2 Nm 1.11 CLUTCH, Adjustment
 
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Old Jun 13, 2016 | 07:54 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by timbo141
T-27 and torque wrench is recommended and follow this torque sequence:.

Originally Posted by 14GuineaPig
As per the 2011 Service Manual:


Clutch inspection cover screws 84-108 in-lbs 9.5-12.2 Nm 1.11 CLUTCH, Adjustment
Much appreciated gentlemen, thank you!
 
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Old Jun 13, 2016 | 08:19 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by nytryder
Ive replaced a bunch of those covers and have yet to use a torque wrench. I just carefully snug them all up then add a little more. Never had a leak. Still find them plenty tight when it comes time to loosen them back up for service. 100 in pounds is pretty close to nothing. I add this in case you don't have an inch pound torque wrench. Hope this helps.
I believe that, in the case of the derby cover, the actual torque numbers are less important than that they are evenly tightened in a criss cross patern.
I've also had mine off half a dozen times and never replaced the gasket with no leaks or other issues. In fact, my FSM clearly states that cleaning and reinstalling it is perfectly acceptable as long as the gasket is not damaged in some way. Clean the gasket and the groove it rides in and install the cover.
 
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Old Jun 14, 2016 | 10:37 AM
  #17  
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I for one never used syn oil in the primary(overkill) i use sae 30 wt dino oil 15w-40 is good too and haven't had a issue yet. Never take anything the dealer said they done for granted.... always check your oil levels
 
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Old Jun 14, 2016 | 10:56 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by jerseyjeff62
I for one never used syn oil in the primary(overkill) i use sae 30 wt dino oil 15w-40 is good too and haven't had a issue yet. Never take anything the dealer said they done for granted.... always check your oil levels
Are you saying you are using regular non-motorcycle specific dino motor oil in your primary?
 
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Old Jun 15, 2016 | 07:35 PM
  #19  
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Finally had a chance to do the full clutch adjustment this afternoon.

No issues getting the derby cover off - didn't end up getting the impact driver, but a buddy suggested putting the bit in each screw and tapping it lightly with a hammer to break friction before removing them. No idea if this helped or not, but I did it, and they all came out with zero issues.

No problem getting the locknut loosened once I figured out how to hold the rear brake with no helper (used the soft end of a ratchet strap and tied the pedal to the lower portion of the engine guard in the compressed position (no fairing lowers so this was easy).

After adding a bunch of slack to the clutch cable and backing the locknut off, out of curiousity I tried running the adjuster screw in to see how far it would go before meeting resistance. The answer was nowhere. It was turned all the way in to 'no play'. I ran it out and in a few times to get the feel for exactly where the resistance point was, then backed off a little over 1/2 turn. Tightened the locknut back down, and then started taking slack back out of the clutch cable.

Turns out I had to run the adjuster all the way out to get enough tension on the cable now - only have about 2 turns of the adjustment screw on the threaded portion of the cable. If I'm thinking about this correctly, this means the cable is probably too long or stretched? I didn't think to check how much more tension I had available before starting the adjustment, so don't know how much this changed. I'm left with about 3/16" spacing between the ferrule and the clutch lever housing now - makes the lever feel a little sloppy compared to what I'm used to, but in spec, so figured I'd give it a try.

Put the derby cover back on (re-used the o-ring) and buttoned everything up, managing not to strip out any of the screws.

Took her out for a half hour test ride - took it kinda easy for 10 minutes to let things warm up, then started getting increasingly aggressive with the throttle when I could, Had quite a few chances to get it up to the 3k range in 5th, and a brief chance at the same in 6th. NO SLIPPING!!! Tried various rates of rolling on the throttle, and I could not get it to repeat what it did the other day. Same buddy who suggested tapping the screws with a hammer also suggested trying a smooth full throttle roll on in 5th at the bottom of the RPM range to see if I could make it slip there. Wasn't really crazy about that much throttle at low RPM, so was a little hesitant. Tried it once, and no slip.

Friction zone now begins at just about half clutch lever travel, rather than at almost full extension before. While I'm not used to this, I think I'm going to like it better. Initial impression is that the friction zone is a little wider. Might just be over-thinking it though. Neutral is still finicky.

At any rate, thanks for reading all my wordy posts, and HUGE thanks to all of you who provided advice and encouragement!

Dan
 
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Old Jun 15, 2016 | 07:42 PM
  #20  
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Sounds like you got it right now. The friction zone sounds correct too. Good job
 
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