Average Oil temp with cooler...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 185
From: Mountain West, Big Sky Country
=============================================
All you guys are totally missing the big picture here which is even at 230-240-250 deg oil temp hds are in fact already suffering significantly perf wise when oil temps running 40-50 deg hotter in the 230-240-250 deg range in summer heat vs my hd's motor with oil temp 50 deg f cooler.
That makes them much more liable to detonate,they in fact loose sig pwr/trq & throttle response,valves/lifters make more noise,oil pressure is approx 10-12 psi lower @ idle & cruise,hot starts like post fueling up are harder & slower all of which are a thing of past post reducing oil temp 50 deg in summer heat on my 09 hd.
heck,prior to cooling my bike oil pressure in summer heat was 7-8psi @ idle & 32-35max @ cruise with fresh oil change,get 3k miles on the oil and take another 1-2 psi away from that & oil pressure at idle was in the gutter like 4-5psi max.
Post installing the 2 cooling mods reducing oil temp 50 deg f in summer heat oil pressure is not much better being a min of 18psi @ idle & 45-47psi @ criuise in 90+deg f summer heat which is a huge improvement.
the 50 deg f oil temp reduction also puts the oil in a position to not be stressed 7 or sheered as much in summer heat too which will keep it protecting the motor better till its changed too.
That all made my bike feel ,ride & perform like a totally diff bike when riding in summer cond of approx 80deg f or higher (esp in 90-100deg f heat) making the bike & motor much more responsive when i hit the throttle in summer time cond along with also being more comfortable overall to ride too due to less engine heat hitting me & the wife while on the bike too.
And when in cooler riding cond /temp all i do to ensure oil temp warms up to where it should be in simply turn off the switch on wards fans and if i need more heat for oil & motor in real cool riding temp have a custom cover that takes approx 5 seconds to slip over the oil cooler.
I have never had ainy issues at all my bike or classic car (owned & driven since 1978/approx 38-39yrs) with oil & or coolant temp running in 180-200deg f range in late spring ,summer& early fall cond here in NY state with respect to condensation buildup in crankcase etc .
I have had the v-covers off the bike and classic car (69 396-BBC) many times over the yrs with no sign at all of issue like the milky white crap that builds up when you have moisture issues in oil/crankcase/motor in general that you will see on heads with v-covers off of in oil when you change it too.
Yes hd states 230 deg is norm oil temp to see on an hd but the oil temp quickly rises above that in summer temp above 80 deg f esp in traffic or at slower road speed esp on an hd like my 09 flhtcu with batwing faring & lowers etc.
In 85-90+ deg f summer heat with the 2 cooling mods oil temp on my bike is approx 190-195deg f @ cruise & go's to 215-220deg f in moderate traffic post sitting at 4-5 traffic lights in a row along with a little slow moving traffic too.
And the motor on my bike performs much better in 80-90+ deg summer heat when cruising @ 190-195 deg f oil temp with the 2 cooling mods i have vs when oil temp used to run 230deg f or higher,thats for sure which i have experienced 1st hand in both case with & without the 2 cooling mods so know for a fact its true.
But as long as you guys keep completely closed minded you will never get to see & experience for yourselves all the great improvements in engine perf
& riding comfort i now have on my bike all the time in summer cond post installing the 2 cooling mods at the same time on my bike that all you guys think your hd's wont benefit from at all or not much when you couldnt be any further off the mark or wrong about because you never tried it therefore have absolutely no 1st hand exp with it on your hd's till ya trying like i did.
I go by results and posted the actual true results i got on my bike mult times post installing the 2 cooling mods @ the same time ,but all you NEY Sayers are full of bologna & dont know what your talking about because once again,none have you done or tried what i did so you cant accurately comment on it till you in fact try installing the same 2 cooling mods i did & rec that reduces oil temp 50 deg in summer heat on your bikes .
Then & only then will you Neh Sayers actually see & experience for yourselves just how well your hd motor responds to the oil & motor running much cooler in warmer summer cond which most of you that are POOH POOHING the idea your hd could benefit a lot from cooling the oil & motor like i did have yet to try.
All my posting on this subject isnt opinion that can sometimes be on target thats just as often not on target which is the case here for the guys that are commenting on something they never did or tried which is simply BS at that point.
Enough said!/LOL!
And Happy motoring in 80 deg f or higher temps on your HD's w-roasting motors that lucky for me is now a thing of the past on my HD!/LOL!!
Scott
All you guys are totally missing the big picture here which is even at 230-240-250 deg oil temp hds are in fact already suffering significantly perf wise when oil temps running 40-50 deg hotter in the 230-240-250 deg range in summer heat vs my hd's motor with oil temp 50 deg f cooler.
That makes them much more liable to detonate,they in fact loose sig pwr/trq & throttle response,valves/lifters make more noise,oil pressure is approx 10-12 psi lower @ idle & cruise,hot starts like post fueling up are harder & slower all of which are a thing of past post reducing oil temp 50 deg in summer heat on my 09 hd.
heck,prior to cooling my bike oil pressure in summer heat was 7-8psi @ idle & 32-35max @ cruise with fresh oil change,get 3k miles on the oil and take another 1-2 psi away from that & oil pressure at idle was in the gutter like 4-5psi max.
Post installing the 2 cooling mods reducing oil temp 50 deg f in summer heat oil pressure is not much better being a min of 18psi @ idle & 45-47psi @ criuise in 90+deg f summer heat which is a huge improvement.
the 50 deg f oil temp reduction also puts the oil in a position to not be stressed 7 or sheered as much in summer heat too which will keep it protecting the motor better till its changed too.
That all made my bike feel ,ride & perform like a totally diff bike when riding in summer cond of approx 80deg f or higher (esp in 90-100deg f heat) making the bike & motor much more responsive when i hit the throttle in summer time cond along with also being more comfortable overall to ride too due to less engine heat hitting me & the wife while on the bike too.
And when in cooler riding cond /temp all i do to ensure oil temp warms up to where it should be in simply turn off the switch on wards fans and if i need more heat for oil & motor in real cool riding temp have a custom cover that takes approx 5 seconds to slip over the oil cooler.
I have never had ainy issues at all my bike or classic car (owned & driven since 1978/approx 38-39yrs) with oil & or coolant temp running in 180-200deg f range in late spring ,summer& early fall cond here in NY state with respect to condensation buildup in crankcase etc .
I have had the v-covers off the bike and classic car (69 396-BBC) many times over the yrs with no sign at all of issue like the milky white crap that builds up when you have moisture issues in oil/crankcase/motor in general that you will see on heads with v-covers off of in oil when you change it too.
Yes hd states 230 deg is norm oil temp to see on an hd but the oil temp quickly rises above that in summer temp above 80 deg f esp in traffic or at slower road speed esp on an hd like my 09 flhtcu with batwing faring & lowers etc.
In 85-90+ deg f summer heat with the 2 cooling mods oil temp on my bike is approx 190-195deg f @ cruise & go's to 215-220deg f in moderate traffic post sitting at 4-5 traffic lights in a row along with a little slow moving traffic too.
And the motor on my bike performs much better in 80-90+ deg summer heat when cruising @ 190-195 deg f oil temp with the 2 cooling mods i have vs when oil temp used to run 230deg f or higher,thats for sure which i have experienced 1st hand in both case with & without the 2 cooling mods so know for a fact its true.
But as long as you guys keep completely closed minded you will never get to see & experience for yourselves all the great improvements in engine perf
& riding comfort i now have on my bike all the time in summer cond post installing the 2 cooling mods at the same time on my bike that all you guys think your hd's wont benefit from at all or not much when you couldnt be any further off the mark or wrong about because you never tried it therefore have absolutely no 1st hand exp with it on your hd's till ya trying like i did.
I go by results and posted the actual true results i got on my bike mult times post installing the 2 cooling mods @ the same time ,but all you NEY Sayers are full of bologna & dont know what your talking about because once again,none have you done or tried what i did so you cant accurately comment on it till you in fact try installing the same 2 cooling mods i did & rec that reduces oil temp 50 deg in summer heat on your bikes .
Then & only then will you Neh Sayers actually see & experience for yourselves just how well your hd motor responds to the oil & motor running much cooler in warmer summer cond which most of you that are POOH POOHING the idea your hd could benefit a lot from cooling the oil & motor like i did have yet to try.
All my posting on this subject isnt opinion that can sometimes be on target thats just as often not on target which is the case here for the guys that are commenting on something they never did or tried which is simply BS at that point.
Enough said!/LOL!
And Happy motoring in 80 deg f or higher temps on your HD's w-roasting motors that lucky for me is now a thing of the past on my HD!/LOL!!
Scott
With all due respect, experience for each person is different. Mine is different than yours. I respect your experience and what you have done to your bike. But its not mine. I ride 25k a year have three HD road glides and have never seen heat as a issue in performance. I have built each of my HD engines, run a similar set up on my 96, my 107 and my 120R. No bike gets hot by my definition. I've ridden in downtown Sturgis during the rally, down south in August, and in the NE in july and August on pump gas without any issues. So i believe i have enough data points over 20 plus years of riding to understand the simplicity of Harley engines. My 04 bike has 180k on the clock and has over its lifetime been a 88 a 95 and now a 107. Each upgrade was my wanting to change vs the engine requiring a change and its never been hot.
So, while i understand your experience, and im glad you are pleased with your results, they are not mine. Im going to run over 200 and below 290 with a target of 230 so i boil off water and achieve some measure of engine efficency.
So in short, i do not believe you and you can say I'm closed minded but my experience has taught me, you are not correct for my bike.
I am pleased with how my bikes performance is achieved, as are you, but welcome a chance to settle the oil temp difference in a real world environment such as a leisurely 150 to 500 mile ride in August heat in a location of mutual agreement. That way we can each independently observe the others bike and open our minds to gain a different understanding of twin cam heat and its effects on performance.
Have a great day.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 246
From: Columbia SC
Huh? Where did they hide the oil cooler on my bike? The twin-cooling does virtually nothing for oil temps.
My post has nothing to do with 'doing things we like to our bikes'. It was a sarcastic response to the ever present diatribe on how we're all riding performance reduced bikes due to our lack of ultracool oil coolers combined with engine cooling fans. That long-winded post is every oil or engine cooling thread on this forum.
My post has nothing to do with 'doing things we like to our bikes'. It was a sarcastic response to the ever present diatribe on how we're all riding performance reduced bikes due to our lack of ultracool oil coolers combined with engine cooling fans. That long-winded post is every oil or engine cooling thread on this forum.
Cooling the oil will help in extreme conditions or in you case, cooling the heads vs no cooling at all.
(just talking here, I may have missed the sarcasm part
)
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 246
From: Columbia SC
Hey bigsky,
Im not at all taking any sides in your debate with Scott, heck I didnt even read his full post. I did skim over it, I suspect for a lot of us, time is short sometimes.
I will say this, when people debate they need to accept we all live in different parts of the country. When you mention a hot August day for a test.
Well, honestly that tells you your local climate is not that hot. Because every day is a hot August day here.
In the midlands of South Carolina, just like the last 3 days, its a big yawn riding in temps from 98 degrees to 102 degrees and those daytime highs are the same for months.
I have to admit, I LOVE my Road King, I may never own another bike other then this. Ok, well, if I ever dont own a RK, maybe a Road Glide someday .. *L*
With that said, I can back up some of the, for lack of better words, complaints about sloppy power delivery when the engine is cooking hot.
My wife and I love riding the interstates, even more so on hot days, typical speeds here are 75+ and moving along on 100 degree days the engine never will miss a bit or lack any power, but go 2 up, same temps for 20 minutes or longer in stop and go traffic, lets says shopping areas and the engine does get sloppy, I can feel the power loss, heck, even my wife knows the engine does not sound as happy.
When I first got the bike I brought it up with the dealer, yup, says its normal.
I do know having a fan blow on the heads would help, really not crazy about the look AND most of our riding is always faster, but if I was frequently in traffic I would consider it, which is why, being our roads move mostly fast here, I am considering either 1. A larger Jagg non fan 10 row cooler to replace my stock 6 row or 2. simply put a fan in front of the stock 6 row.
I am just not crazy about paying what Jagg wants for the coil, but for someone who wants to pay, I do believe in their products and they are in business to make money.
I have to admit, if someone other then Jagg made a 10 row replacement cooler for the stock 6 row HD cooler that cost closer to closer to $100 rather then $300 I would order it in a heartbeat if they could prove Jagg type quality. I give Jagg credit for their documentation on their website too and its quite possible I will get it either way. I dont want a fan, just the cooler and mount to swap out the OEM cooler.
Im not at all taking any sides in your debate with Scott, heck I didnt even read his full post. I did skim over it, I suspect for a lot of us, time is short sometimes.
I will say this, when people debate they need to accept we all live in different parts of the country. When you mention a hot August day for a test.
Well, honestly that tells you your local climate is not that hot. Because every day is a hot August day here.
In the midlands of South Carolina, just like the last 3 days, its a big yawn riding in temps from 98 degrees to 102 degrees and those daytime highs are the same for months.
I have to admit, I LOVE my Road King, I may never own another bike other then this. Ok, well, if I ever dont own a RK, maybe a Road Glide someday .. *L*
With that said, I can back up some of the, for lack of better words, complaints about sloppy power delivery when the engine is cooking hot.
My wife and I love riding the interstates, even more so on hot days, typical speeds here are 75+ and moving along on 100 degree days the engine never will miss a bit or lack any power, but go 2 up, same temps for 20 minutes or longer in stop and go traffic, lets says shopping areas and the engine does get sloppy, I can feel the power loss, heck, even my wife knows the engine does not sound as happy.
When I first got the bike I brought it up with the dealer, yup, says its normal.
I do know having a fan blow on the heads would help, really not crazy about the look AND most of our riding is always faster, but if I was frequently in traffic I would consider it, which is why, being our roads move mostly fast here, I am considering either 1. A larger Jagg non fan 10 row cooler to replace my stock 6 row or 2. simply put a fan in front of the stock 6 row.
I am just not crazy about paying what Jagg wants for the coil, but for someone who wants to pay, I do believe in their products and they are in business to make money.
I have to admit, if someone other then Jagg made a 10 row replacement cooler for the stock 6 row HD cooler that cost closer to closer to $100 rather then $300 I would order it in a heartbeat if they could prove Jagg type quality. I give Jagg credit for their documentation on their website too and its quite possible I will get it either way. I dont want a fan, just the cooler and mount to swap out the OEM cooler.
Last edited by alarmdoug; Jun 24, 2016 at 08:17 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 185
From: Mountain West, Big Sky Country
Alarmdoug,
Appreciate your response. I understand your comments. I have ridden in SC, used to live in Charlottee, Birmingham, Nashville and other areas of the country. Current live in Montana but ride nationwide.
I think i understand hot in context of regional variations. So my comments i believe are valid as to my experience with heat.
Let me say again, never had a heat problem anywhere in the US. It was in the 105 last weekend in Mt and my 120R never broke 240.
Appreciate humidity maybe a difference but cannot believe it truly impacts the bike and any heat management modification.
I visited the HD test track where they test out bikes in talladega Alabama and have seen first hand the abuse heaped on the twin cam in a hot humid environment.
Thanks for the response i still stand behind my experience until i see evidence to the contrary. Again what works for me may not work for others.
Appreciate your response. I understand your comments. I have ridden in SC, used to live in Charlottee, Birmingham, Nashville and other areas of the country. Current live in Montana but ride nationwide.
I think i understand hot in context of regional variations. So my comments i believe are valid as to my experience with heat.
Let me say again, never had a heat problem anywhere in the US. It was in the 105 last weekend in Mt and my 120R never broke 240.
Appreciate humidity maybe a difference but cannot believe it truly impacts the bike and any heat management modification.
I visited the HD test track where they test out bikes in talladega Alabama and have seen first hand the abuse heaped on the twin cam in a hot humid environment.
Thanks for the response i still stand behind my experience until i see evidence to the contrary. Again what works for me may not work for others.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 77
Likes: 14
From: Bassett, WI
Today here in Wisconsin, it is 73 degrees. Took a 60 mile ride and the oil temp got to 160 degrees. I am running a S & S cam chest and oil pump, and a Baker + 1.5 qt oil pan. Riding when it gets to 90 degrees, nets the same temp. My oil temp comes up if I am sitting in traffic waiting for a light to turn, but once on the open road it comes back down to 170. I saw 220 degrees while sitting in town at a traffic light. If the weather gets below 60 degrees, it time for me to put a cover on my oil cooler. I did remove the thermostat from the oil cooler, so I am cooling all the time. I do not have any fans etc. just the stock cooler on my 2011 FLHTK.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 472
From: CC TX
My 13 CVO 110 was climbing over 300 in the summer heat at hwy speeds. I added the fans, changed the oil thermostat and now have oil temps of around 230 at hwy speed.
The bike would go into parade mode on city streets at 90 ambient. since the fans, the bike never goes into parade mode, ever. The engine response is considerably improved as well.
When I park, the fans continue to cool the engine which reduces heat soak.
I am not telling you or anyone else what to put on their own bike, just responding to your post.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 345
From: Ohio
Oil needs to get above 212 degrees to boil any water caused by condensation out of the oil.
It is best to keep you site on a range for oil temp as many variables come into play. 230 is center point on the oil gauge from HD.
Overall running well below 200 or over 290 should be a concern.
230 is a good target number and seems to be where the engine is designed to run most effectively.
It is best to keep you site on a range for oil temp as many variables come into play. 230 is center point on the oil gauge from HD.
Overall running well below 200 or over 290 should be a concern.
230 is a good target number and seems to be where the engine is designed to run most effectively.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 307
From: Houston, Texas
I was worried about oil temperatures on my nightrain and bought a gauge for the oil tank, I obsessed over it. I looked at it every time I came to a stop. I was constantly looking at it. I realized that when you are stuck in traffic and the bike gets hot, there's nothing you can do about the oil temps and staring at the gauge will do nothing to cool them down. I bought an oil cooler for it and in traffic, it still got hot.
When I traded it in on my RKC, I found the ultimate solution to my obsession. I didn't put an oil temp gauge on it. Now I ride along in total oblivion and bliss. The obsession is gone snd I could care less what my oil temp is.
I've set in bumper to bumper traffic for hours in the Houston heat and humidty both over 95. When it's that hot, how can you tell what's coming off the engine or the concrete. Yes, I can tell when the engine's hot because it runs like crap but as soon as I get out of the traffic and rolling again, it cools off very quickly and returns to normal. I commute 75 miles a day on this bike. I put 115,000 miles on it before rebuilding it. I only did that because I had the money in the bike and wanted to do some internal upgrades so I could go farther than 100,000 on this build. The indy told me the worst wear he saw was in the valve guides. He even reused my cam plate. He told me it was the first one he'd seen with that many miles that was still well within spec. It has the HD oil cooler which my indy told me was completely stopped up when it was rebuilt.
The moral of my story and my personal opinion ( which means nothing) is that while all the fans and coolers damn sure don't hurt, your engine will survive just fine without any of it. They are air cooled engines and get hot without air. They are designed for that and are tested in the Arizona desert. Aslo keep in mind there is an optimum temperature, that's why the oil coolers have thermostats. Too hot..not good...too cold...not good either.
So do what you think best and you will be good either way as long as you change the oil when you are supposed to.
When I traded it in on my RKC, I found the ultimate solution to my obsession. I didn't put an oil temp gauge on it. Now I ride along in total oblivion and bliss. The obsession is gone snd I could care less what my oil temp is.
I've set in bumper to bumper traffic for hours in the Houston heat and humidty both over 95. When it's that hot, how can you tell what's coming off the engine or the concrete. Yes, I can tell when the engine's hot because it runs like crap but as soon as I get out of the traffic and rolling again, it cools off very quickly and returns to normal. I commute 75 miles a day on this bike. I put 115,000 miles on it before rebuilding it. I only did that because I had the money in the bike and wanted to do some internal upgrades so I could go farther than 100,000 on this build. The indy told me the worst wear he saw was in the valve guides. He even reused my cam plate. He told me it was the first one he'd seen with that many miles that was still well within spec. It has the HD oil cooler which my indy told me was completely stopped up when it was rebuilt.
The moral of my story and my personal opinion ( which means nothing) is that while all the fans and coolers damn sure don't hurt, your engine will survive just fine without any of it. They are air cooled engines and get hot without air. They are designed for that and are tested in the Arizona desert. Aslo keep in mind there is an optimum temperature, that's why the oil coolers have thermostats. Too hot..not good...too cold...not good either.
So do what you think best and you will be good either way as long as you change the oil when you are supposed to.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 20,530
Likes: 2,305
From: texas panhandle
I had an oil temp gauge(that is now failed) and in normal operating conditions in about any ambient temperature over 70F, the gauge said I was running between 210-230. Oil temp would rise with lack of speed, sometimes up to 280. When raining, the temp would fall off the bottom of the scale which I think is around 180. The question should be, at what temperature is the harley twin cam designed to be the most efficient? I do agree that the normal oil temp should be over 212F to evaporate any moisture.