ABS Question
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,730
Likes: 199
From: Vancouver BC
I agree that this is what happenes to the vast majority of people, in the vast majority of cases. That is why ABS was developed and has become so popular....
I will submit, however, that the proper way to brake IS NOT "any way at all" or "grabbing brakes for your life". Just because it happens that way in the majority of cases, it doesn't make it the right way, only the "most frequent" way.
I believe the proper way to brake, in any rapid stop situation, is "threshold braking". It is not instinctual. So like any neuro-muscular response, you need to train & practice the technique. With training and practice, it can become your reaction to an emergency, panic-stop situation....
I have been trained-in and practice threshold braking. It has become my automatic response to any rapid braking scenario in a car, truck, or bike.... I have to concentrate, to be able to just "jam on" the brakes, if I want to test the ABS on any of my vehicles.
I believe it's sad, that skill is being replaced by nanny devices on our vehicles. I understand that most people don't have, won't want, and prefer the tech over learning a skill. I can see how nanny devices may protect us from some of those who care not about developing their skills. But for me, I chose to rely on me for my safety, not an electro-mechanical device.
And to all the ABS zealots, I'm not knocking ABS. Quite the contrary, I believe it to be a great addition to proper threshold braking. You can't always pick the surface you need to stop rapidly on. While I have heard the arguments that ABS is "faster/better" than threshold braking. I would submit that in a complete panic stop situation that may be true, but to what degree? Most threshold braking situations are not panic stops, just fast stops. No need to turn those into "panic stop" situations, because you haven't the skill to react and stop without using ABS. I believe that to train people to just "jam on" the brakes, and rely on a nanny device, rather than develop a skill, is a step backwards...
Of course, I could be wrong, JMHO....
I will submit, however, that the proper way to brake IS NOT "any way at all" or "grabbing brakes for your life". Just because it happens that way in the majority of cases, it doesn't make it the right way, only the "most frequent" way.
I believe the proper way to brake, in any rapid stop situation, is "threshold braking". It is not instinctual. So like any neuro-muscular response, you need to train & practice the technique. With training and practice, it can become your reaction to an emergency, panic-stop situation....
I have been trained-in and practice threshold braking. It has become my automatic response to any rapid braking scenario in a car, truck, or bike.... I have to concentrate, to be able to just "jam on" the brakes, if I want to test the ABS on any of my vehicles.
I believe it's sad, that skill is being replaced by nanny devices on our vehicles. I understand that most people don't have, won't want, and prefer the tech over learning a skill. I can see how nanny devices may protect us from some of those who care not about developing their skills. But for me, I chose to rely on me for my safety, not an electro-mechanical device.
And to all the ABS zealots, I'm not knocking ABS. Quite the contrary, I believe it to be a great addition to proper threshold braking. You can't always pick the surface you need to stop rapidly on. While I have heard the arguments that ABS is "faster/better" than threshold braking. I would submit that in a complete panic stop situation that may be true, but to what degree? Most threshold braking situations are not panic stops, just fast stops. No need to turn those into "panic stop" situations, because you haven't the skill to react and stop without using ABS. I believe that to train people to just "jam on" the brakes, and rely on a nanny device, rather than develop a skill, is a step backwards...
Of course, I could be wrong, JMHO....
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
Likes: 44
From: Montana
I agree that this is what happenes to the vast majority of people, in the vast majority of cases. That is why ABS was developed and has become so popular....
I will submit, however, that the proper way to brake IS NOT "any way at all" or "grabbing brakes for your life". Just because it happens that way in the majority of cases, it doesn't make it the right way, only the "most frequent" way.
I believe the proper way to brake, in any rapid stop situation, is "threshold braking". It is not instinctual. So like any neuro-muscular response, you need to train & practice the technique. With training and practice, it can become your reaction to an emergency, panic-stop situation....
I have been trained-in and practice threshold braking. It has become my automatic response to any rapid braking scenario in a car, truck, or bike.... I have to concentrate, to be able to just "jam on" the brakes, if I want to test the ABS on any of my vehicles.
I believe it's sad, that skill is being replaced by nanny devices on our vehicles. I understand that most people don't have, won't want, and prefer the tech over learning a skill. I can see how nanny devices may protect us from some of those who care not about developing their skills. But for me, I chose to rely on me for my safety, not an electro-mechanical device.
And to all the ABS zealots, I'm not knocking ABS. Quite the contrary, I believe it to be a great addition to proper threshold braking. You can't always pick the surface you need to stop rapidly on. While I have heard the arguments that ABS is "faster/better" than threshold braking. I would submit that in a complete panic stop situation that may be true, but to what degree? Most threshold braking situations are not panic stops, just fast stops. No need to turn those into "panic stop" situations, because you haven't the skill to react and stop without using ABS. I believe that to train people to just "jam on" the brakes, and rely on a nanny device, rather than develop a skill, is a step backwards...
Of course, I could be wrong, JMHO....
I will submit, however, that the proper way to brake IS NOT "any way at all" or "grabbing brakes for your life". Just because it happens that way in the majority of cases, it doesn't make it the right way, only the "most frequent" way.
I believe the proper way to brake, in any rapid stop situation, is "threshold braking". It is not instinctual. So like any neuro-muscular response, you need to train & practice the technique. With training and practice, it can become your reaction to an emergency, panic-stop situation....
I have been trained-in and practice threshold braking. It has become my automatic response to any rapid braking scenario in a car, truck, or bike.... I have to concentrate, to be able to just "jam on" the brakes, if I want to test the ABS on any of my vehicles.
I believe it's sad, that skill is being replaced by nanny devices on our vehicles. I understand that most people don't have, won't want, and prefer the tech over learning a skill. I can see how nanny devices may protect us from some of those who care not about developing their skills. But for me, I chose to rely on me for my safety, not an electro-mechanical device.
And to all the ABS zealots, I'm not knocking ABS. Quite the contrary, I believe it to be a great addition to proper threshold braking. You can't always pick the surface you need to stop rapidly on. While I have heard the arguments that ABS is "faster/better" than threshold braking. I would submit that in a complete panic stop situation that may be true, but to what degree? Most threshold braking situations are not panic stops, just fast stops. No need to turn those into "panic stop" situations, because you haven't the skill to react and stop without using ABS. I believe that to train people to just "jam on" the brakes, and rely on a nanny device, rather than develop a skill, is a step backwards...
Of course, I could be wrong, JMHO....
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 69,901
Likes: 18,589
From: South Florida
I LOVE THAT LINE OF THINKING!!! And am HAPPY to say it!BuzzCap7
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,860
Likes: 3,725
From: St. Charles, MO
Contrary to popular belief, a motor vehicle can leave skid marks with ABS. Having worked hundreds of vehicle accidents, I can attest to this.
That said, I'd still have them checked out at the dealer just to be absolutely sure.
That said, I'd still have them checked out at the dealer just to be absolutely sure.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
Likes: 44
From: Montana
You are right and next time in the shop I will have them checked (Need a new rear tire soon). Having said that, how would they go about checking them? As I said in my original post the bike had just had the brake system flushed at Arrowhead HD in April. I'm sure it was hooked up to the machine they use (don't know the name). The ABS light does flash during startup and goes off once I start out. Thanks..... goldie
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,860
Likes: 3,725
From: St. Charles, MO
You are right and next time in the shop I will have them checked (Need a new rear tire soon). Having said that, how would they go about checking them? As I said in my original post the bike had just had the brake system flushed at Arrowhead HD in April. I'm sure it was hooked up to the machine they use (don't know the name). The ABS light does flash during startup and goes off once I start out. Thanks..... goldie
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 69,901
Likes: 18,589
From: South Florida
Thank you,
BuzzCap7
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,860
Likes: 3,725
From: St. Charles, MO
2. The vast majority of serious accidents involve some level of inattentive driving.
I don't really find anything about accidents to be "amazing", but I've probably misunderstood what you mean.