FLH Starter Problems
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 4
From:
RE: FLH Starter Problems
Nothing like playing monday morning quarterback.
There is absolutely nothing to replace good logical step by step troubleshooting up front, rather than the hit and miss throw parts at it.
But as of now you've covered all the things you can except a new bike except some really unusual items.
You as the owner and the one that's there are the only one who can surmise what was needed.
first it is 30 years old. Has the starter been worked on before or replaced etc. How old was the battery.
The fact it was discharged should of been a clue.
etc etc etc.
I'm not picking on you, but I see this all the time. By inexperienced newbies and even by professional shops.
Most all service manuals include a diagnostic flow chart for different areas of the bike for when something goes wrong. They always start with the simplest (easiest to to do) and most likely the cause of the problem and work to the hardest least likely.
sometimes you have to figure in upfront that it may be two related items causing the problem
your case would most likely be age of the components.
Old starter and battery.
so 1st make sure the battery is in GOOD operable condition. and all connections.
Then physically determine the starter condition as this starter maybe original.
Your clatter could be caused by worn and or damaged teeth but also by insufficient battery power to keep the hold in circuit of the starter solenoid fully engaged thus failing to keep the starter bendix (per se) fully engaged, which in turn causes the teeth to clatter as they mesh and unmesh and slip off each other..
In your case failing to have the battery properly charged AND load tested was the main error.
But you did recover by physically opening the starter and confirming badly worn brushes in the starter and confirming the meshing teeth were in good condition.
So here it was probably a double fault in the system.
An old battery that could no longer supply enough current to operate the starter properly under a load of cranking over the engine AND badly worn brushes causing the starter to draw more current than what the battery could supply to start with.
As I said above I'm not picking on you or anything, but trying to help you and others to see how to properly go about diagnosing a problem in the first place.
1. determine what system on the bike the problem is in .
2 determine what items are in that system and how do the parts relate to each other to perform their function correctly.
3. Start with the easist and simplest. those are normally what fail first and most often.
But I think you will be ok and up and running ok with the new battery.
But do keep us posted and let us know, that's how we all learn.
There is absolutely nothing to replace good logical step by step troubleshooting up front, rather than the hit and miss throw parts at it.
But as of now you've covered all the things you can except a new bike except some really unusual items.
You as the owner and the one that's there are the only one who can surmise what was needed.
first it is 30 years old. Has the starter been worked on before or replaced etc. How old was the battery.
The fact it was discharged should of been a clue.
etc etc etc.
I'm not picking on you, but I see this all the time. By inexperienced newbies and even by professional shops.
Most all service manuals include a diagnostic flow chart for different areas of the bike for when something goes wrong. They always start with the simplest (easiest to to do) and most likely the cause of the problem and work to the hardest least likely.
sometimes you have to figure in upfront that it may be two related items causing the problem
your case would most likely be age of the components.
Old starter and battery.
so 1st make sure the battery is in GOOD operable condition. and all connections.
Then physically determine the starter condition as this starter maybe original.
Your clatter could be caused by worn and or damaged teeth but also by insufficient battery power to keep the hold in circuit of the starter solenoid fully engaged thus failing to keep the starter bendix (per se) fully engaged, which in turn causes the teeth to clatter as they mesh and unmesh and slip off each other..
In your case failing to have the battery properly charged AND load tested was the main error.
But you did recover by physically opening the starter and confirming badly worn brushes in the starter and confirming the meshing teeth were in good condition.
So here it was probably a double fault in the system.
An old battery that could no longer supply enough current to operate the starter properly under a load of cranking over the engine AND badly worn brushes causing the starter to draw more current than what the battery could supply to start with.
As I said above I'm not picking on you or anything, but trying to help you and others to see how to properly go about diagnosing a problem in the first place.
1. determine what system on the bike the problem is in .
2 determine what items are in that system and how do the parts relate to each other to perform their function correctly.
3. Start with the easist and simplest. those are normally what fail first and most often.
But I think you will be ok and up and running ok with the new battery.
But do keep us posted and let us know, that's how we all learn.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Beachwood, NJ
RE: FLH Starter Problems
I understand that it is difficult to post some things on here without seeming scarcastic or seeming like it is picking on me as well. Also the problem with posting is in your suggestions I have done some of them already and can't point them out as you say them. I have taken apart the starter. It is not the original starter.The primarywas changed over to a belt drive primary a few years ago and at that time I replaced the gears and the starter. I was knocked off of it and it was paid for by the other insurance company. My curiousity for this post was if anybody has ever had this problem with the chatteringbefore and had it corrected by replacing the battery or if anybody has ever even heard of it? It seems that I have done all that I can and (with the exception of replacing the whole starter or the bike itself) done everything that I can even think of. I appreciate the advice though.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 4
From:
RE: FLH Starter Problems
Like I said I wasn't picking on you. Just trying to show the reasons for good clear concise, step by step trouble shooting procedures.
Well going back to square one.
the original complaint was a clattering of teeth --- correct?
Normally that is caused by starter not fully engaging or staying engaged or damaged teeth etc.
first would of been check the battery cable connections at both ends for tightness and corrosion.
While you're there check starter for tightness.
Then check the battery fully charged and able to hold a full charge with enough power (load test) to properly operate the starter (first the pull-in circuit, then hold-in circuit, then finally spin the motor and crank the engine over).
You said you ordered a new battery sometime during this period.
Presuming the above was good (battery and starter tightness).
I would disconnect the start solenoid wire from starter and verify 12 volts there. If yes ok, if not back track and find why the voltage drop (2 or more volts).
If that was good and I knew engine was mechanically sound, then I would (depending on your setup) open the primary and inspect teeth (you may have an open primary with belt drive so would be easy thing to do)
Some HD starters you can remove brush cover without removing starter.
I would of went there next to observe brush condition. If worn as you say, remove clean, replace brushes or whole starter.
Then you would have covered the entire start circuit from easiest to hardest.
I do have an advantage. I have a battery load tester and starter load tester.
But a quick check if you don't. Hook a volt meter across the battery terminals.
Crank engine if it drops to 9 volts or less, you have an electrical problem,
less then 5 volts and you don't have enough current to crank and fire the engine.
(that's roughed in some may be a little higher).
You can get battery load testers from most auto parts stores for less then $50.
Autozone will charge and load test a battery for free at most stores.
Well going back to square one.
the original complaint was a clattering of teeth --- correct?
Normally that is caused by starter not fully engaging or staying engaged or damaged teeth etc.
first would of been check the battery cable connections at both ends for tightness and corrosion.
While you're there check starter for tightness.
Then check the battery fully charged and able to hold a full charge with enough power (load test) to properly operate the starter (first the pull-in circuit, then hold-in circuit, then finally spin the motor and crank the engine over).
You said you ordered a new battery sometime during this period.
Presuming the above was good (battery and starter tightness).
I would disconnect the start solenoid wire from starter and verify 12 volts there. If yes ok, if not back track and find why the voltage drop (2 or more volts).
If that was good and I knew engine was mechanically sound, then I would (depending on your setup) open the primary and inspect teeth (you may have an open primary with belt drive so would be easy thing to do)
Some HD starters you can remove brush cover without removing starter.
I would of went there next to observe brush condition. If worn as you say, remove clean, replace brushes or whole starter.
Then you would have covered the entire start circuit from easiest to hardest.
I do have an advantage. I have a battery load tester and starter load tester.
But a quick check if you don't. Hook a volt meter across the battery terminals.
Crank engine if it drops to 9 volts or less, you have an electrical problem,
less then 5 volts and you don't have enough current to crank and fire the engine.
(that's roughed in some may be a little higher).
You can get battery load testers from most auto parts stores for less then $50.
Autozone will charge and load test a battery for free at most stores.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Beachwood, NJ
RE: FLH Starter Problems
Borrowed my father's testers (he's an electrician). All voltage was reading correctly while I had a jumpstarter hooked up. But I am wondering if a dead battery will still cause the same problem with the chattering. The chattering isn't comming from any damage to the teeth. The starter isn't spinning, it's just not engaging. Has anybody ever heard about cell walls inside a battery collapsing?
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 4
From:
RE: FLH Starter Problems
The walls don't actually collapse , but the cell plates can.
either very badly sulfated and time for a new battery, or a
defective or really cheap battery can do this.
But what do you mean by a jump starter hooked up?
Battery charger with start boost or a jumper wire for the solenoid?
If you pull the solenoid wire off starter, and hook volt meter
to it and push starter button it should read battery volts (12 volts).
You're (T.F.)saying you have that, until you plug it into solenoid and
retest then it drops to 7.9, You will naturally get some voltage drop as the current is being passed over to spin the starter, but shouldn't be more than about 2 volts.
More than that you got a connection problem, weak battery, or starter motor drawing too much current trying to spin. Possible solenoid, but more likely one of the others mentioned.
either very badly sulfated and time for a new battery, or a
defective or really cheap battery can do this.
But what do you mean by a jump starter hooked up?
Battery charger with start boost or a jumper wire for the solenoid?
If you pull the solenoid wire off starter, and hook volt meter
to it and push starter button it should read battery volts (12 volts).
You're (T.F.)saying you have that, until you plug it into solenoid and
retest then it drops to 7.9, You will naturally get some voltage drop as the current is being passed over to spin the starter, but shouldn't be more than about 2 volts.
More than that you got a connection problem, weak battery, or starter motor drawing too much current trying to spin. Possible solenoid, but more likely one of the others mentioned.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Beachwood, NJ
RE: FLH Starter Problems
Did the volt tester and it is drawing 12v. I have a battery charger that can be used to jumpstart a 12 v battery. I am thinking that I am possibly not getting a good ground that is while it is not being fully pushed out to engage and even give the starter a chance to spin.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: South Louisiana
RE: FLH Starter Problems
I have an '00 FLHR that has developed an inconsistent starting problem. In 1 out of 25-30 starts the starter doesnt turn over it only clicks loudly. I have changed the battery and had it in to my mechanic twice and he has been unable to find any electrical problems ie\\; switch, wiring, solenoid, etc. He hasnt been able to reproduce the problem either. It happened twice at the end of a ferrry crossing where the bike was left in gear and there was alot of movement on the boat. It has also happened when I cut the bike off when in gear. Not every time but it seems that is the only external factor I can associate with the occurances. It has been 3 years now of looking for parking places on hills. Any ideas?
Stage II
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: New york
starter stays engaged unless i pull neg battery cable
Hi i have a similiar problem as posted my starter stays engaged unless i pull neg battery cable. I have tried everything. i rode bike all last sumer starting bike pulling neg cable for a second and quickly putting it back on to keep bike running this is a pain. I have changed starter switch, key switch, new solenoid, new starter, new battery, terminal wires ,new bendix gear checked ring gear for wear and checked spacer on rod. I am dumfounded and could appreciate any help. I looked for a push button starter to attach to solenoid could not find one for my bike. By the way I have a 1988 flhs. thanks Len2987945
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 19,978
Likes: 6,074
From: Florida
OH HELL people---S-O-L-E-N-O-I-D!!!!
I have found many ills can be cured with a new battery, or at the very least cleaning & tightening the cable connections. Takes care of most clicking, chattering, & hot start kickback.
I have found many ills can be cured with a new battery, or at the very least cleaning & tightening the cable connections. Takes care of most clicking, chattering, & hot start kickback.
Last edited by dickey; Mar 21, 2015 at 12:25 PM.
